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I must say, I'm not thrilled with this idea. It's been done wrong too many times, by focusing on the eye-candy appeal. I'd rather not have yet another ugly class library.
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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It's worth it, but only if we do it right. I have a ton of good ideas, and maybe there's others who do, too.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
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I think this is a fine idea.
Marc Clifton has already sown the seeds as far as I am concerned. After his series of articles I don't look at application development the same way.
Marc are you reading? Any chances in moving the AAL from a source forge project to a part or subporject of the new CP project?
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?
- Jack Burton
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I'm looking at something between Marc's and SharpDevelop's frameworks, with the best of my ideas thrown in, too. 
Hey, if you like it, give it a vote. 
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Yeah, I read their (SharpDevelp's) documentation book, some of the work is execlent but I (like all assholes) have my own ideas.
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?
- Jack Burton
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What I like best are the addin/codon stuff, and the XML property persistance.
What I don't like is:
![Rose | [Rose]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif) they still don't have a unified user message system.
they don't have a good menu/toolbar system - I have an idea which would only use commands, which could be on menus or toolbars, and would allow user customization of menus/toolbars.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
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jdunlap wrote:
I have an idea which would only use commands, which could be on menus or toolbars, and would allow user customization of menus/toolbars.
In ED (see sig) I have a unified system for handling commands which doesn't care where the commands originate (menu,toolbar,kbd,macro,mouse click) but has the information on the source, should someone down the track need it.
Also entire sequences of commands can be tied to a menu item, toolbar button, key sequence etc. along with parameters for each command as required. This has proven to work very well for me and my users.
For messaging I find signals and slots are "the way" to go.
Neville Franks, Author of ED for Windows. Free Trial at www.getsoft.com
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Neville Franks wrote:
In ED (see sig) I have a unified system for handling commands which doesn't care where the commands originate (menu,toolbar,kbd,macro,mouse click) but has the information on the source, should someone down the track need it.
Thanks for mentioning it. I'll look into it.
Neville Franks wrote:
along with parameters for each command as required
That's where SharpDevelop really doesn't make it. For instance, what if you wanted to have there be a menu item builder that builds a recent list containing a number of menu items for recent files, with the command "App.OpenFile", and the name of the file as a parameter? You can't do this very well in SharpDevelop, but it's very important that you have that capability.
Neville Franks wrote:
As far as messaging I find signals and slots are the way to go
I was talking mainly about messages to the user, and logging/debug messages.
I'll take this opportunity to say something that's on my mind:
I think that a good solid application framework is one of the biggest keys to the success of failure of a piece of software. If you don't bother to make a good framework, then it's as good as if you tried to build a house on top of a landslide-prone hill. You're going to have problems all the way, and sooner or later, it's going to get to where you have to ditch it and start over.
This project could help thousands of people make much better applications. It would reduce the headaches of maintaining ever-larger apps, and we would finally get the full benefits of component-based development.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Chris Austin wrote:
Any chances in moving the AAL from a source forge project to a part or subporject of the new CP project?
Sure! I'd be fine with that.
Chris Austin wrote:
I don't look at application development the same way.
![Jig | [Dance]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/jig.gif) 
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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Too bad my co-workers aren't so happy now that I've become the instrumented framework nazi.
Seriously, I'll be glad to help with your efforts if you can put up with a lot of questions and bit sporatic help at first. I am stil adjusting to my new hours at my new job (7:00 - 4:00 vs "whenever" - "whenever + 9") and I have been very sleepy (not to mention grumpy) lately.
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?
- Jack Burton
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Chris Austin wrote:
I'll be glad to help with your efforts
Cool! I'm working on the GUI and database automation stuff at this point. Shall I email you my current source so you can peruse it at your convenience? I could sure use some feedback!
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Shall I email you my current source so you can peruse it at your convenience? I could sure use some feedback!
Sure. That works for me.
If it is avalable via CVS I can do that as well. 
I'll send you my private address.
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?
- Jack Burton
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Gotta second this one. I like anyone who takes a look at SharpDevelop have been thinking through and working on pieces of my own framework. SD's addin/ codon but it runs into problems when you try to adapt it to the concept of needing to load-unload-load plugins at runtime. Dependency checking becomes a nightmare.
Anyway I'm game for this one! I really like what Marc has done with his articles and have considered scrapping what I've built i experiment and using that as a foundation.
Mark Conger
Sonork:100.28396
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It would certainly be nice to bag lots of the Office style GUI code together like BCGControlBar / Ultimate Toolkit does. After all the interface they make are wonderful - just a shame BCG is no longer free for most of us... Certainly an incentive to build on the idea in a no charge way
*¨¨`)
¸¸.·´ ¸.·*¨¨`)
(¸¸.·* ¸ .·*
¸¸.·*
(¸¸.~~> Joel Holdsworth.
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Joel Holdsworth wrote:
It would certainly be nice to bag lots of the Office style GUI code together like BCGControlBar / Ultimate Toolkit does. After all the interface they make are wonderful - just a shame BCG is no longer free for most of us... Certainly an incentive to build on the idea in a no charge way
Precisely. I have a big list of both common and not-so-common controls I'd like to see us do.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Since someone submitted an idea for a C# book ... 
We have found that there is not much well written on writing WinForm applications in .NET and yet it is very different from the old days in some ways. So I put in a suggestion for a book on writing winform applications.
_____________________________________________
The world is a dangerous place.
Not because of those that do evil,
but because of those who look on and do nothing.
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My proposal is for an ASP.NET class library that we can use in place of the ASP.NET intrinsic controls. Currently the ASP.NET controls output fairly horrendous and bloated HTML, are not XHTML compliant, and do not support Mozilla et al. A set of controls either replacing these controls, or deriving from them and overriding their HTML rendering functionality would be a Good Thing.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
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Any chance of making this a part of UGLY?
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Mate, I can make it as ugly as you want. Just ask Paul 
cheers,
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote:
Just ask Paul
I've heard it isn't bad at all... I've been told that "you would never let ugly code leave your machine".. from my secret informer* 
*I won't tell him it was you Paul.. your secret is safe with me.
Regards,
Brian Dela 
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Flattery will not get you out of getting me a Kilkenny cap
cheers,
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote:
Flattery will not get you out of getting me a Kilkenny cap
Damn Thats not what I was doing Chris.. Honest!!! :-P ... Right.. Kilkenny cap can be sent to you tomorrow.... Kilkenny beer or Kilkenny Stout is a problem. I'll get u one eventually
Regards,
Brian Dela
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Tom Welch wrote:
Any chance of making this a part of UGLY?
Now there is an idea. I am dead set on doing the XHTML ASP.NET control library, that has my top score as the idea.
.NET has the two trees of WebForms and Windows Forms. So our project with the XHTML WebForms could be done in parallel with a Windows Forms version as well.
I like it. And of course calling it UGLY just rocks
using UGLY.WebControls 
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa
Chris Losinger wrote:
i hate needles so much i can't even imagine allowing one near The Little Programmer
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The one who's project gets elected will be the project leader, right?
It looks like you are in, Chris !
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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