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Jason Henderson wrote:
Not necessarily. Patience young grasshopper...
I guess I did sound impatient, but what I meant was discussing how to go about the collaboration side of things. The sooner we take care of that, the better. For instance, how hard would it be to just make a new generic section for CP Projects, similar to, say, the C# article section?
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi
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The most important, I think, is now to start to make the volunteers feel like one big group. We should get the discussions going and propose Jason Henderson as CPP Administrator. What du you think?
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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That's exactly what I want. I was hoping that I could do an article on the GUI Library to get people excited about it, but if you have another idea, that's fine.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi
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I don't have any other idea. If you write the article then I support you , of course, If I like it. You can also have my C# book idea, because I will not develop it any more.
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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I still think that the original idea was that we all would do something together. Creating articles and having people "disappearing" there will make this like a mini SourceForge. But if we make this to a forum where we develop ideas and start up projects then we would have something special. I also think we could have a hierarchy with you on top and project leaders right under you. Then when we find that real "killer app" that we all want to do you can collect people together again.
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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jhaga wrote:
I still think that the original idea was that we all would do something together. Creating articles and having people "disappearing" there will make this like a mini SourceForge
People will inevitably "disappear," but to keep those disappearances at a minimum, we need results and good project leaders. So until the infrastructure for real CPPs is in place, we're going to have to work like a military unit with the project leader being the drill sergeant (a real harda$$, with the desire to keep thigs going).
jhaga wrote:
I also think we could have a hierarchy with you on top and project leaders right under you. Then when we find that real "killer app" that we all want to do you can collect people together again.
I'm flattered, but I'm not sure I'd want the job. 
Jason Henderson My articles
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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CPP Administrator? But you practially are already  And everything is running ok, and once we make this forum to a message board it will be easier to know what everybody thinks.
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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I must say, I'm not thrilled with this idea. It's been done wrong too many times, by focusing on the eye-candy appeal. I'd rather not have yet another ugly class library.
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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It's worth it, but only if we do it right. I have a ton of good ideas, and maybe there's others who do, too.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
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I think this is a fine idea.
Marc Clifton has already sown the seeds as far as I am concerned. After his series of articles I don't look at application development the same way.
Marc are you reading? Any chances in moving the AAL from a source forge project to a part or subporject of the new CP project?
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?
- Jack Burton
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I'm looking at something between Marc's and SharpDevelop's frameworks, with the best of my ideas thrown in, too.
Hey, if you like it, give it a vote.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Yeah, I read their (SharpDevelp's) documentation book, some of the work is execlent but I (like all assholes) have my own ideas.
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?
- Jack Burton
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What I like best are the addin/codon stuff, and the XML property persistance.
What I don't like is:
![Rose | [Rose]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif) they still don't have a unified user message system.
they don't have a good menu/toolbar system - I have an idea which would only use commands, which could be on menus or toolbars, and would allow user customization of menus/toolbars.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
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jdunlap wrote:
I have an idea which would only use commands, which could be on menus or toolbars, and would allow user customization of menus/toolbars.
In ED (see sig) I have a unified system for handling commands which doesn't care where the commands originate (menu,toolbar,kbd,macro,mouse click) but has the information on the source, should someone down the track need it.
Also entire sequences of commands can be tied to a menu item, toolbar button, key sequence etc. along with parameters for each command as required. This has proven to work very well for me and my users.
For messaging I find signals and slots are "the way" to go.
Neville Franks, Author of ED for Windows. Free Trial at www.getsoft.com
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Neville Franks wrote:
In ED (see sig) I have a unified system for handling commands which doesn't care where the commands originate (menu,toolbar,kbd,macro,mouse click) but has the information on the source, should someone down the track need it.
Thanks for mentioning it. I'll look into it.
Neville Franks wrote:
along with parameters for each command as required
That's where SharpDevelop really doesn't make it. For instance, what if you wanted to have there be a menu item builder that builds a recent list containing a number of menu items for recent files, with the command "App.OpenFile", and the name of the file as a parameter? You can't do this very well in SharpDevelop, but it's very important that you have that capability.
Neville Franks wrote:
As far as messaging I find signals and slots are the way to go
I was talking mainly about messages to the user, and logging/debug messages.
I'll take this opportunity to say something that's on my mind:
I think that a good solid application framework is one of the biggest keys to the success of failure of a piece of software. If you don't bother to make a good framework, then it's as good as if you tried to build a house on top of a landslide-prone hill. You're going to have problems all the way, and sooner or later, it's going to get to where you have to ditch it and start over.
This project could help thousands of people make much better applications. It would reduce the headaches of maintaining ever-larger apps, and we would finally get the full benefits of component-based development.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Chris Austin wrote:
Any chances in moving the AAL from a source forge project to a part or subporject of the new CP project?
Sure! I'd be fine with that.
Chris Austin wrote:
I don't look at application development the same way.
![Jig | [Dance]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/jig.gif) 
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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Too bad my co-workers aren't so happy now that I've become the instrumented framework nazi.
Seriously, I'll be glad to help with your efforts if you can put up with a lot of questions and bit sporatic help at first. I am stil adjusting to my new hours at my new job (7:00 - 4:00 vs "whenever" - "whenever + 9") and I have been very sleepy (not to mention grumpy) lately.
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?
- Jack Burton
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Chris Austin wrote:
I'll be glad to help with your efforts
Cool! I'm working on the GUI and database automation stuff at this point. Shall I email you my current source so you can peruse it at your convenience? I could sure use some feedback!
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Shall I email you my current source so you can peruse it at your convenience? I could sure use some feedback!
Sure. That works for me.
If it is avalable via CVS I can do that as well. 
I'll send you my private address.
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?
- Jack Burton
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Gotta second this one. I like anyone who takes a look at SharpDevelop have been thinking through and working on pieces of my own framework. SD's addin/ codon but it runs into problems when you try to adapt it to the concept of needing to load-unload-load plugins at runtime. Dependency checking becomes a nightmare.
Anyway I'm game for this one! I really like what Marc has done with his articles and have considered scrapping what I've built i experiment and using that as a foundation.
Mark Conger
Sonork:100.28396
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It would certainly be nice to bag lots of the Office style GUI code together like BCGControlBar / Ultimate Toolkit does. After all the interface they make are wonderful - just a shame BCG is no longer free for most of us... Certainly an incentive to build on the idea in a no charge way
*¨¨`)
¸¸.·´ ¸.·*¨¨`)
(¸¸.·* ¸ .·*
¸¸.·*
(¸¸.~~> Joel Holdsworth.
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Joel Holdsworth wrote:
It would certainly be nice to bag lots of the Office style GUI code together like BCGControlBar / Ultimate Toolkit does. After all the interface they make are wonderful - just a shame BCG is no longer free for most of us... Certainly an incentive to build on the idea in a no charge way
Precisely. I have a big list of both common and not-so-common controls I'd like to see us do.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Since someone submitted an idea for a C# book ... 
We have found that there is not much well written on writing WinForm applications in .NET and yet it is very different from the old days in some ways. So I put in a suggestion for a book on writing winform applications.
_____________________________________________
The world is a dangerous place.
Not because of those that do evil,
but because of those who look on and do nothing.
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My proposal is for an ASP.NET class library that we can use in place of the ASP.NET intrinsic controls. Currently the ASP.NET controls output fairly horrendous and bloated HTML, are not XHTML compliant, and do not support Mozilla et al. A set of controls either replacing these controls, or deriving from them and overriding their HTML rendering functionality would be a Good Thing.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
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