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Forogar wrote: ...and don't give any of that bull about it being more stable, because it clearly is actually less stable!
Sorry, but that just is not true. I have been running Windows 10 for months and have yet to see a crash, or any other major problem that could be caused by Windows. Windows 7 was much the same but 10 has certainly been no worse. It does everything I need so I am more than happy with it.
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If you deal with clients who run Windows, they will be running W10 sooner or later. New computers will all be W10 one of these days. You will also need W10 to test your code and/or provide tech support for it. Since the customer is always right, you should be a W10 expert.
If you install it on old hardware, it may have stability problems (drivers). I run it in virtual machines. Run what you want to run for you own work, but, also run what you need to run to stay current. If you like what you have....
We still have XP machines in use (no, they don't go on the network). Personally, I liked W2K.
Lou
Never be afraid to tell the world who you are.
-- Anonymous
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Quote: the customer is always right
This is an oft quoted policy for many organisations. That doesn't make it correct.
However, I will be going to WinX soon (at work) for that very reason. I also will start with running it in a VM.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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<GrumpyOldFartView>
I have developed on and for every version of Windows since 3.1. Each time a new version came out, there has always been a group that claimed the new version was so horrible that they refused to use or develop for it.
This attitude is contra-survival in a professional sense. Your refusal to adapt will simply leave you behind. The world and more importantly your customers will upgrade, with or without you. If your products do not work in the new environment, they will find a provider whose products do. This is natural selection in the business world, or what's known in party conversations as "tough luck".
</GrumpyOldFartView>
Software Zen: delete this;
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I realise I am going to have to go to it eventually. I have changed to each successive version starting at DOS 2.20 and only skipping over Windows ME after a quick test. I still run a Vista machine, XP and W2K file servers at home.
What I was looking for was a "good" reason, not a "forced by circumstances" reason.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Somehow, I get the feeling that the "WinX suxx / Win7 rools" group are the same people who, a few years back, were proclaiming that Windows XP was the best version ever produced, and they'd never be moving to Vista / 7 because it was so terrible. 
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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I too have been using Windows 10 since pre-release days on several machines. I have found it stable and reliable and as good if not better than windows 7. The one thing I like about Win 10 over Win 7 is that Win10 has VM tech (Hyper-V) built into it, Win7 has none. And it works really well. One drawback that Hyper-V has is it doesn't connect to usb devices so the VM's won't see them. You have to use third-party software to enable that. I also find the settings panels in Win10 much butter and easier to traverse than the control panel in Win 7, although the control panel is still there. But more and more of it is moving to the settings paradigm with each update.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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HyperV's not much good, compared to third-party apps (VMWare, anyone?).
What I did like was multiple desktop support (finally! After Linux had had it for years!), but I stopped using it because it didn't even come close to the usefulness of DexPot.
IMO, they should focus their OS development on developing and fixing the OS, rather than ignore OS bugs and create buggy, inferior versions of apps that third parties do better.
If asked if I would prefer reliable hardware drivers or have a naff media player/VM client/multi-desktop app baked in, I know what my answer would be.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: HyperV's not much good, compared to third-party apps (VMWare, anyone?).
I use both every day and except for USB support I see little difference between the two.
Mark_Wallace wrote: multiple desktop support
Windows has had this capability (and I've used it) since Windows NT 3.51 days.
Mark_Wallace wrote: reliable hardware drivers
Usually the fault of whatever 3rd party hardware vendor you're using.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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TheGreatAndPowerfulOzI use both every day and except for USB support I see little difference between the two.
Well, for one thing, there's no USB support (in case you hadn't noticed).
TheGreatAndPowerfulOzWindows has had this capability (and I've used it) since Windows NT 3.51 days.
Not sure about that, but who works on a server, anyway?
TheGreatAndPowerfulOzUsually the fault of whatever 3rd party hardware vendor you're using.
... Who make their drivers according to the information provided to them by ms.
It's easy to blame a guy for using the wrong sized drill bit when you don't tell him what size hole you want -- have you ever tried contacting ms because you need information on how to align with their products?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: there's no USB support (in case you hadn't noticed).
I'm not sure if your statement is sarcasm or not, but in case YOU didn't notice I already said that. BTW, VMWare doesn't come with USB support unless you also install the VMWare tools.
Mark_Wallace wrote: works on a server
NT 3.51 was also a workstation OS. See Windows NT 4.0 - Wikipedia[^] for multi-desktop support.
Mark_Wallace wrote: Who make their drivers according to the information provided to them by ms.
Yes, and as we all know driver writers never write bugs into their software and always follow MS directives to the "T".  And yah I know it's difficult to get info out of MS. Been there done that (not with drivers tho). But as someone who often has to write software that interfaces with drivers and get information from them about the hardware they supposedly support, I know most drivers I have encountered have plenty of problems and often cause issues not only for the OS but for their own hardware.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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TheGreatAndPowerfulOz wrote: I'm not sure if your statement is sarcasm or not
Jeeze, if you can't tell a custard pie when it hits you in the face, stay away from Laurel & Hardy movies.
TheGreatAndPowerfulOz wrote: See Windows NT 4.0 - Wikipedia[^] for multi-desktop support.
So it didn't come with multi-desktop support unless you installed VMWare tools Windows NT 4.0 Workstation and Server Resource Kit*?
Do as you say, not as you do?
TheGreatAndPowerfulOz wrote: I know most drivers I have encountered have plenty of problems and often cause issues not only for the OS but for their own hardware
I wouldn't say most, but many, if you stay at the cheap end of the market. Expensive laser printers, for example, are another matter -- as are keyboards that suddenly stop working, because the makers were stupid enough to rely on windows drivers working from one version to the next.
Besides, I've seen less problems with the drivers themselves, and a lot more with the bloated cr@p that equipment manufacturers install alongside them as "helpers" (not quite the word I'd use for them).
* Custard-pie time again
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: Jeeze
Sheesh yourself dude. Mine was just as sarcastic.
Mark_Wallace wrote: come with multi-desktop support
I said it had the capability. And no, you didn't have to install the resource kit. Just use the one exe.
Mark_Wallace wrote: bloated cr@p that equipment manufacturers install alongside
Yep. I have taken to uninstalling all of that for a better OOBE.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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TheGreatAndPowerfulOzyou didn't have to install the resource kit
What, are you saying that wikipedia got something wrong?
Sorry, but you're pushing the boundaries of credibility just a little too far outward, now.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: What, are you saying that wikipedia got something wrong?
No. Just that you didn't understand.
Quote frok Wikipedia: which contained a large number of tools and utilities, such as desktops.exe
Yah, you can just copy out one tool or utility not the entire kit.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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No reason now, win7 is fast, stable, I know it down to the details and supports whatever I need.
When and only when Win10 will have features I will absolutely need then I will chnage - in the meantime most of the population will have exeprienced all kind of crap with Win10 so either MS will have fixed it or there will be third party tools that solve the leftover problems, widely used debugged and documented.
I change from stable to stable, a system that cannot go on for more than 2 months without non strictly-security updates is a Work In Progress, and I don't buy beta versions nor preorders. When your system works on 99% of systems and you don't have to keep updating it then I will think about switching.
DURA LEX, SED LEX
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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Forogar wrote: and I don't care that it starts up faster
If it does start up faster, disable Fast Start.
I am one of the many who has lost his system drive because of that poorly implemented PoC (search on "0xc000000f - The Boot Selection Failed Because A Required Device Is Inaccessible").
It's not worth the risk.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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When I was about 10, I used to go to stay with my Gran during the holidays. On Mondays she used to do the washing. This involved lighting a fire under a large copper boiler in which to boil the clothes. Once the washing cycle was complete, I used to help her remove most of the water from the clothes prior to hanging them out to dry. This involved turning the handle on a large cast-iron mangle that was taller than I was. Woe betide if you got your fingers caught in the large wooden rollers. How quickly do you think she changed when small electric washing machines with an integrated wringer came out. Exactly!!!!
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You know that that is really no comparison, don't you?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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You're right, of course.
I should have just gone down for my breakfast when She shouted me.
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Jeeze.
If I spent time chatting after having been called, my breakfast would be in the cat.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Luckily, we don't have a cat, or a dog either. I'm just used to eating food cold, or at the best, tepid. Mind you, when she really starts to shout, I don't hang about.
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I call Windows10 the "Adware" version of Windows. I don't care for the GUI, myself and they have yet to show me a single feature worth upgrading for. Wait ... I know, the Services applet remembers it's window dimensions and position between sessions - Time to upgrade! 
I played with it on-and-off for awhile. Even upgraded my development box to it just to see if I could live with it. I found it irritating to use so I re-imaged back to 7. All the machines on my network are on 7 ... I locked 10 out. The only one that's different is a little box the wife has and it's running 8.1. I keep a VM loaded with it to tinker with from time-to-time and test software I deliver in case something breaks but that's it.
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After the Win 10 Anniversary Upgrade, there was a brief period when herself's desktop was plagued with sudden freezes. On the web we learnt that this was a common issue on machines with multiple drives installed. However, Microsoft seems to have fixed it with the next update. All Windows 10 machines in our household are now very stable, and I am very pleased with the fact that I did upgrade to 10.
I feel that 10 is now as good as 7 was, and better. I wonder what the experiences of other CPians are with Win 10?
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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