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you have got to keep them separated Carel8-Jun-03 2:19 Carel 8-Jun-03 2:19  imho Internet access and os are separate entities that need to stay as independent as possible. The os should neither require nor be dependant on internet access. Wouldn't it be a bad situation if you would be forced to connect to the internet to do your thing? The os can/should contain the basic browser independant stuff to support access as is but whether one uses it and what browser is used with that is up to the end user so... "The Internet should be closed. " Chris Maunder6-Jun-03 1:54 Chris Maunder 6-Jun-03 1:54  lol cheers, Chris Maunder Re: "The Internet should be closed. " Armen Hakobyan6-Jun-03 7:33 Armen Hakobyan 6-Jun-03 7:33  http://www.mythologic.net/end #define __ARMEN_H__ Define O.S. Anonymous5-Jun-03 8:22 Anonymous 5-Jun-03 8:22  Can someone be kind to define OS for me? I guess I need to take OS-class again to understand what is OS (according to M$)? Re: Define O.S. Marc Clifton5-Jun-03 15:53 Marc Clifton 5-Jun-03 15:53  http://www.codeproject.com/script/survey/detail.asp?survey=287#xx512561xx[^] Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator. Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files" Re: Define O.S. Anthony_Yio5-Jun-03 16:20 Anthony_Yio 5-Jun-03 16:20  Accept the fact that Microsoft is the dominant software company. It is sad but it is true. http://www.founder.com.my Re: Define O.S. Alberto Bencivenni5-Jun-03 21:05 Alberto Bencivenni 5-Jun-03 21:05  Microsoft is like the wife. You know that she's not the best but you don't leave her. Alberto Bencivenni www.devDept.com Re: Define O.S. Anthony_Yio8-Jun-03 17:27 Anthony_Yio 8-Jun-03 17:27  You can always use Linux if you want to http://www.founder.com.my Re: Define O.S. So, no one knows "O.S"? Anonymous9-Jun-03 8:01 Anonymous 9-Jun-03 8:01  There is no answer............ Micro$oft is a big monster in the market but doesn't mean anything... Wake up Microsoft!! Giles4-Jun-03 0:36 Giles 4-Jun-03 0:36  Yes I could see possibly the advantage of integrating with the OS, say for locking down the browser agaist attacks by using reduced privelages, or for moving parts to the kernal (though this would be questionable), as they have done with IIS. Thing is there are things like AvantBrowser which make big imporvments to the user interface - YES THE USER INTERFACE. Are they saying that they need to work more closely with the OS to improce that? I don't care about the speed - IE is already fast compared to most browsers - such as Opera 7 - which runs like a dog. I want MS to implement something like Avant Browser - with an MDI feature, and the ability to open a page in the background, and refresh at a user determined interval. If they can't even do this then they are clearly lying bastards and are hiding something. How about they elaborate on the issues involved that are stoping them from making incremental improvements? Why do I care? Because so many web pages are reliant on the browsers features - such as the Dynamic view in the forums here at codeproject - which don't work in Opera for example. Works a treat in Avant because it uses IE. And there are still bugs in IE, it does still crash, and I keep sending my reports. If Apple can be bothered writing their own browser (built on the KDE browser I think) then MS should, becuase lets face it - its not like they have not got the money, and if they are so keen on adding value with free extra's after say you have bought your OS as they are doing with 2003 server, then its the least they can do, is update IE. I was kind of disapointed when I saw IE6 - it seems to be IE5.5 with a few extra's - such as a half assed cookie management thing, but besides that nothing new. If there were any improvements to the redering engine, I never noticed and they did not seem to advertise the fact if there was. Any way, I'm finished winging. Please please please MS - keep IE up to date, and for all of the currently supported OS's. I don't want to have to upgrade to Longhorn just to get a ne version of IE. "Je pense, donc je mange." - Rene Descartes 1689 - Just before his mother put his tea on the table. Shameless Plug - Distributed Database Transactions in .NET using COM+ Re: Wake up Microsoft!! Jon Newman4-Jun-03 10:58 Jon Newman 4-Jun-03 10:58  Giles wrote: I was kind of disapointed when I saw IE6 Me too, before the first SP, I couldnt install it on anything below Win2000 without some form of system fcukup. "Póg mo thóin!" "One of the most important things you learn !rom the internet is that there is no ‘them’ out there. It’s just an awful lot of ‘us’." -Douglas Adams Jonathan 'nonny' Newman Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^] Re: Wake up Microsoft!! Stephane Rodriguez.5-Jun-03 8:42 Stephane Rodriguez. 5-Jun-03 8:42  Giles wrote: Thing is there are things like AvantBrowser which make big imporvments to the user interface If the user interface is made more complex, then it's not an improvement. If we, that is very narrow slice of people on the net, are willing to use "advanced" browsers, then why don't we just get along with them and don't even care about the "produit de masse" like IE. Giles wrote: and the ability to open a page in the background, and refresh at a user determined interval. Isn't this Active desktop (1998) ? Push mode is being rewritten these days with blogs, however. It won't take long before Microsoft embeds a weblog client in IE or VS.NET.... Giles wrote: I was kind of disapointed when I saw IE6 - it seems to be IE5.5 with a few extra's - such as a half assed cookie management thing, but besides that nothing new Besides bug fixes and yes, a lot of new of broken CSS/DHTML behaviours compared with IE5.5, IE6 features all the necessary plumbing to allow .NET winform apps to run inside IE, and client-side ASP.NET tags made robust enough not to crash the web pages when rendered using IE. Enough said. The only reason Microsoft would upgrade IE6 are IMHO because they want to provide built-in engines to their own XML/XSD namespaces. After all, namespaces provide semantics which are nothing without a relevant parser and rendering engine. Each of them. So yes, Microsoft could release a service pack for IE along with Office 2003, just to allow the new and latest XML-centric file formats to be richly rendered using IE (and even edited, persisted, ...). Misleading Yes/No questions Jürgen Eidt3-Jun-03 19:59 Jürgen Eidt 3-Jun-03 19:59  Of course, anyone wants to have an innovated browser, but the "innovation" part is missing the "Yes" question which will cause most of the people to vote for No. This is my personal opinion while reading the survey. and what about... Tibor Blazko3-Jun-03 19:35 Tibor Blazko 3-Jun-03 19:35  Further improvements to OS will require enhancements to the used browser to be able fulfill them because old browsers can't know new interfaces. i think new IE should run with any OS version just maybe without some new integration features, other browsers are able to t! Re: and what about... User 98854-Jun-03 6:20 User 9885 4-Jun-03 6:20  Most people don't need anything more than IE6 at present ... and most other browsers I have used are not as complete as IE. They are using this to their advantage. I have a bug-report in with a font-rendering problem for Mozilla for 1 year. It has not been addressed. I have an IP KVM that uses ActiveX controls. Mozilla fails with it. There are some of the many reasons that I use IE. I somehow don't like Opera. It has something to do with the MDI nature of it. I like the Mozilla tabbed views better. But then, it is personal preferences. I would really like it, if the Mozilla/Firebird stuff worked as smooth as IE with borderline coding by website designers. Thomas My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers modified 29-Aug-18 21:01pm. Part of the TCPA thrust dog_spawn3-Jun-03 11:10 dog_spawn 3-Jun-03 11:10  Disclaimer : contains hypothetical examples In my opinion, this is not a modularity/integration issue. If you have to upgrade your OS to get a new version of IE, you will also be forced to use TCPA / Palladium. If you look at this tactic long term you will see it is an effective way to make novice users swallow new OSes as they are released rather than sticking with what they have. As an example, imagine corporate web sites simply not working in older browsers simply because they are loaded with client side script that only works in IE 7... which might only work if you have a TCPA / Palladium OS. AOL and IE Matt Newman3-Jun-03 5:46 Matt Newman 3-Jun-03 5:46  So how exactly is this gonna work with the AOL deal? Are all new AOL users gonna have to upgrade to longhorn to use the internet? Even if they distribute IE 6 what happens to Win95 or Mac AOL users? I seem to be caring for AOL users Matt Newman Re: AOL and IE jhwurmbach3-Jun-03 23:21 jhwurmbach 3-Jun-03 23:21  Matt Newman wrote: what happens to Win95 or Mac AOL users [sarcasm] Heretics are to be burnt on a stake, or am I wrong? [/sarcasm] Microsoft wants to sell Longhorns, not spend money past technology or the well-being of Steven Jobs. So I am very sure you will not get an up-to-date browser without an up-to-date (microsoft) OS. My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. VS.NET tries to force IE use alecbrown3-Jun-03 0:05 alecbrown 3-Jun-03 0:05  I am a professional developer, using C# but no ASP.NET, I use VS.NET (not 2003) and since I use Mizilla Firebird as my default browser, I can no longer look at the start page in VS.NET as it requires IE as the default, even though I keep IE around for those sites that use non-standard HTML. Even though the IE COM object is integrated in the IDE, this effect happens because VS.NET calls a URL that uses an URL shortcut which only works in IE and opens the IE COM object in the IDE. There probably is a hack to get round this, however I don't think the content of the start page is of sufficient quality to work it out. The solution should have been for the IDE to just call it's own IE COM object, and the start page should be just standard HTML, in the same way that Outlook and Outlook Express just open IE internally. Microsoft still 'integrate' applications in ways that get round the legal arguments but hamper use of other applications in subtle ways. I can't wait until MS use the same trick for Outlook users, so that you cannot view the Outlook Today page without IE as default. Re: Yes, but.... Michael P Butler2-Jun-03 21:53 Michael P Butler 2-Jun-03 21:53  Ah Cairo, I always had great hopes for this. A shame that Microsoft never pursued it further. I do habour the dream that Longhorn may be a step in the right direction... but I'm not going to hold my breath. Michael 'War is at best barbarism...Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation. War is hell.' - General William Sherman, 1879 I've gotta say... Shog92-Jun-03 11:56 Shog9 2-Jun-03 11:56  Although there are only three preset options in this poll, the text entry has allowed some truely creative suggestions. Who can argue with the eloquence of CListCtrl or CEditCtrl? What a frightening world would we be living in, should trayicon or avidemo come to pass! chat, of course, is always popular. - Shog9 - I'd show a smile but I'm too weak I'd share with you, could I only speak Re: I've gotta say... Michael Dunn2-Jun-03 12:01 Michael Dunn 2-Jun-03 12:01  Shog9 wrote: the text entry has allowed some truely creative suggestions. Ah yes, it's been a while since a poll had the free-text response option. I missed seeing people typing searches into it. (And I still don't understand how someone could mistake that for the search.) --Mike-- Latest blog entry: *drool* (Alyson) [May 10] Ericahist | Homepage | RightClick-Encrypt | 1ClickPicGrabber "You have Erica on the brain" - Jon Sagara to me Re: I've gotta say... Marc Clifton5-Jun-03 15:56 Marc Clifton 5-Jun-03 15:56  Michael Dunn wrote: And I still don't understand how someone could mistake that for the search.) I wonder if some of these are being generated by a search engine mistaking an edit field as a search field? Is that too wierd? I've experienced similar stuff with google, but not at this level. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator. Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files" Vote for Managed IE Component as the most expected one!!! ian monstein2-Jun-03 9:48 ian monstein 2-Jun-03 9:48  I think the moment when MS will deliver a whole Managed IE with pretty exception handling, no buffer overflow, componentized embedded on need with or/without deepest kernel depencies will be a really big big leap in many developers. SmartClient is perharbs a first step? are there any one who agree with such statement here Re: Vote for Managed IE Component as the most expected one!!! David Stone2-Jun-03 10:15 David Stone 2-Jun-03 10:15  I would definitely agree with you here. The core IE engine does need to be it's own Managed (.NET) component. Working with the IE engine from within a .NET app right now is almost unbearable. Hawaian shirts and shorts work too in Summer. People assume you're either a complete nut (in which case not a worthy target) or so damn good you don't need to worry about camouflage... -Anna-Jayne Metcalfe on Paintballing

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