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BrainiacV wrote: You don't have to be confrontational to do that, just give him a few gentle suggestions. If he does not react well to them, give up, his is a lost cause.
Exactly, I feel that you should try to approach him nicely, but it may fail as there are a lot of people that are too cocky to admit they are wrong or are willing to listen to others. I'd rather not engage in discussions with them when I realize they are not reasonable. If you do, its likely that they will take it personally and attack you with nothing but insults.
The statement below illustrates what how I feel:
“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
----
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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I work in a similar environment where I'm the only real programmer. Management isn't evil man, just talk to them. Work on your people skills. They still may wish to use Excel for quick and dirty things, and that's ok. It's not the end of the world. But ranting about it online while thinking they're stupid in real life doesn't exactly make for a healthy work relationship.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: But ranting about it online while thinking they're stupid in real life
OK, my mistake, then I have probably misunderstood the point of the Internet. 
I just needed to vent out. Talking to management won't change anything, or in the best case end up for more work for me ("It can be done better ? Then do it yourself"). What probably drives me mad is that it is yet another example of a workplace where millions are invested in development&research for the product, but not for the SW tools that help developing it. For that part, it is OK to let a computer-illiterate handle database development with worldwide multi-location deployment, cross-application data exchange, interface to ERP, etc... 
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus
Entropy isn't what it used to.
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Rage wrote: OK, my mistake, then I have probably misunderstood the point of the Internet.
Touché! 
Rage wrote: For that part, it is OK to let a computer-illiterate handle database development with worldwide multi-location deployment, cross-application data exchange, interface to ERP, etc...
BS sells man. Same thing with most things in life, like with magic health pills and fad diets. Take the new next thing magic pill that's never worked before while avoiding the fact you don't need the pill at all. Sometimes, it's just how about how you present your point and the energy behind it. Like when it comes to sales, people buy crap from people they like. The crap they're buying really doesn't matter. A good salesman can sell ice to an Eskimo because his customers like him and people listen to people they like and vice versa.
Jeremy Falcon
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Then I am doomed: I am a social bitch. People would not take gold from me, even if I would give it away for free.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus
Entropy isn't what it used to.
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Don't be so hard on yourself man, I'd be more than happy to take gold for free from you... because that's how much I care.
Jeremy Falcon
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So it sounds like the real problem is management, are you going to go to management and complain to them about that? Point out how they've been failing all this time?
It's not your job or responsibility to run the company. Maybe you know a thousand ways to do things better, but the sharpest knife is the one that cuts most deeply. You can't fix management from below, you can only make enemies that way.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Management isn't evil man
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If management sides with an idiot and/or a know-it all, and your complaints go unanswered/unheard, then you have to make two decisions, continue to work in that environment or leave.
I, usually leave.
edit: luckily, I have had to leave only twice in my career and it was for the better.
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Slacker007 wrote: If management sides with an idiot and/or a know-it all,
I'm willing to bet this "know-it-all" guy is just really outgoing. Maybe charismatic. Not saying it's smart or right, but I'm willing to bet he's a talker and can connect with people.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: 'm willing to bet this "know-it-all" guy is just really outgoing. Maybe charismatic. Not saying it's smart or right, but I'm willing to bet he's a talker and can connect with people.
Like you? 
No thanks. Not for me. It has been my experience that the know it all, really doesn't know anything.
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Slacker007 wrote: Like you?
Gotta work on your social skills man.
Slacker007 wrote: No thanks. Not for me. It has been my experience that the know it all, really doesn't know anything.
You have to assume you're a know-it-all to actually buy into the fact someone you don't like knows nothing. There are different types of intelligence, and memorizing things from a book does not make you experienced or all-knowing.
Jeremy Falcon
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Slacker007 wrote: No thanks. Not for me. It has been my experience that the know it all, really doesn't know anything.
And I'm not trying to say the some know-it-all tech type guy knows his tech. But he knows how to talk and voice his opinion. Which counts for something, especially when speaking to people that don't know what we do and have no way to trust a coder that doesn't speak up.
Jeremy Falcon
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Sounds like a struck a nerve. 
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Nope. It's called communicating. Try it.
Jeremy Falcon
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Just out of curiosity... do you work for Siemens Automation?
I ask because I often wonder if their software people are brain dead.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Been exactly where you are, the Form is done, everyone thinks it's a five minute job to wire it up! 
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glennPattonPUB wrote: everyone thinks it's a five minute job to wire it up!
So true, I don't whether to laugh or cry.
"Isn't done yet?" 
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
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Unlike you, he knows to leave room for improvement.
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you could challenge him? Probably won't work, but it will be hell of fun  .
So in the meeting it would go something like this...
You: Really? Copy / Paste N times. I would have done this in a for loop.
He: [brief moment of silence] for loop? yes, of course, but [insert really dumb reason for not using for loop here]
You: Oh, I didn't have that [that really dumb reason] problem. Look. [show code en let it run]
He: ... uhm ...
You: [start talking real development jargon that you know he doesn't understand.]
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I have a similar thing going on right now. I just let him have all the rope and he is slowly hanging himself. 3 months behind on what should have been a one month project, and that's generous.
With the stuff he isn't directly responsible for I just ignore his loud and arrogant mouthyness and tell the support people to do it my way. And I was right. Problem is now fixed for the customer.
Main thing is don't get angry, and don't be afraid to give people like this rope, to give them a little shove towards the cliff edge. Have your own app written in preparation, and when his crashes and burns just show yours to management and tell them you wrote it in the evenings just for fun.
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Management are there to manage the business - and therefore they want stuff done now, cheaply and right. They don't give a toss about whether it is in C# or VB6, using Access or Oracle. They just want a solution.
If someone offers them a solution, and it works, then as far as they are concerned, job done, tick the box, take the bonus at xmas.
So, you need a way to tell them that the solutions being produced are only good in the short term (assuming that is the case - what is the cost of maintenance of the badly written code - how often does it need to be changed?)
It's all well and good to see SW being hacked together and die a little inside when it is, but if it provides a working, cost effective solution to the business then there's nothing you can do about it - because the business doesn't care.
For example:
Business needs a front end program to write some values to the serial port to change some settings on a machine.
You look at it and propose a solution with some base classes for serial communication, a base "Machine" class that can be inherited and extended for different machine types, a Xaml front end that will scale for different devices, and a Db back end to provide Machine descriptions to dynamically build the GUI for different machine types.
it will be written in C# .Net with SQL Server back end, using Agile methodologies with daily scrums and peer programming. TFS will be used for both source control and task management.
Your colleague knocks something up in MS Access overnight, with everything hard coded for the one machine. The code is illegible, uncommented and about as efficient as a chocolate kettle.
Lets say your solution would cost $10,000 and his cost $1,000
The company could write another 10 of the crap solutions, from scratch, for the cost of the flexible solution.
If they anticipate adding a new front end monthly then over a year (ignoring any costs involved in your system setting up a new machine) the cost of both systems is equal.
You see what I am getting at? crap software is not necessarily a bad thing for a business!
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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Sounds like you work for one of the major engineering companies. They charge by the hour, you know. And management thinks software is a rubber plate.
Bobby
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