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...and some are not! Windows 8 is the best gift Microsoft has ever given Apple. Now those on the fence have a reason to spend the few extra dollars on what also appears to be a much higher quality device without feeling vain about it.
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jcoons wrote: Windows 8 is the best gift Microsoft has ever given Apple. Now those on the fence have a reason to spend the few extra dollars on what also appears to be a much higher quality device without feeling vain about it.
You have more dollars than sense.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy - it only cost a few dollars more to go first class. I spend the extra few dollars exactly because I have good sense. The feel of quality, the great performance and graphics, plus resale value (used laptops other than Apple are worth little to nothing in a few years) make Apple MacBook Pro's the best value going for a non throw away computer. I develop clinical software on my MBP that runs Windows 7 / SQL Server 2012 / and Visual Studio 2013 most of my working day. No way I would go back to non Apple laptops - at least while I have a choice.
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jcoons wrote: it only cost a few dollars more
More like twice the price.
jcoons wrote: used laptops other than Apple are worth little to nothing in a few years
Because they are old technology. Old apple laptops are old technology too but some apple evangelist will pay more than it is worth just because it is apple.
jcoons wrote: develop clinical software on my MBP that runs Windows 7 / SQL Server 2012 / and Visual Studio 2013 most of my working day
Why are you not developing on the iOS? Because it is designed for the average user who checks their email, tweets their friends, posts on Farcebook and watches videos on YouTube.
My wife is one of these and when she needed a new computer we bought a vios for about half the price if a iSomething. It does the job.
jcoons wrote: No way I would go back to non Apple laptops
Like I said before you have more dollars than sense.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote: with extreme prejudice. No wonder this thing is failing in the market.
200 Million Windows 8 licenses sold is a market failure? Wish I could fail like that. 
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Sold is not the same as "in use".
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote: Sold is not the same as "in use".
Yeah, I can see lots of companies buying Win8.1 1and replacing it with Linux or OSX
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Right idea, wrong O/S.
We buy machines and they come with a Win8 license. The first we do is scrape 'em down to bare metal and slap it with the corporate Win7 load.
That's why it's 200M licenses sold, but not in use. Considering the number of Windows machines on the planet, 200M is nothing.
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote: We buy machines and they come with a Win8 license. The first we do is scrape 'em down to bare metal and slap it with the corporate Win7 load.
..and that's cheaper than a PC without an OS? I mean including the extra work you put in.
Aight, so some companies will downgrade their desktops after buying the "special offer"; there'll also be enough that will not have a choice, whatever the reason is - lack in skills, or company-policy.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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I don't do the work!  Other minions do that stuff. I do Systems Engineering.
I also don't write the procurement contracts nor do I dictate what we're buying and what HP is selling, and what HP is telling Microsoft as far as sales.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Dave Kreskowiak wrote: We buy machines and they come with a Win8 license. The first we do is scrape 'em down to bare metal and slap it with the corporate Win7 load.
..and that's cheaper than a PC without an OS? I mean including the extra work you put in.
Actually...yes.
Enterprise volume licenses for Windows are incremental on top of existing Windows licenses; they can't be used by themselves. Typical corporate purchases of new machines include an OEM license for the least expensive business-class Windows product offered by the manufacturer; once the machine arrives the hard disk is wiped and the corporate VL image is installed.
Of course, for some hardware the manufacturer might not offer a Windows client. At my POE a few years ago we bought ~50 low-end servers to provide service quality monitoring across the network. The monitor tool ran on Windows 7 Enterprise, so we bought 50 copies of Vista Business, from which we cut out and saved the COA (to prove ownership of what Microsoft calls the "qualifying license") and threw the rest (including the disks) into the trash. That's more work (and more expensive) than would have been the case had we been able to buy an OEM Windows license as part of the hardware purchase.
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You're assuming you can get a machine without an OS. (There for a long time, you couldn't)
For myself, when I bought my latest laptop, it had Win8 on it.
I removed the hard-drive, swapped in a new hard-drive and slapped Linux Mint on it. 
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Ours come with both 7 and 8 images & licenses, we (as in not me) fire it up and choose the image to install (Win7 at the moment) so I'm buggered if I know how that works for the license counter....
If your neighbours don't listen to The Ramones, turn it up real loud so they can.
“We didn't have a positive song until we wrote 'Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue!'” ― Dee Dee Ramone
"The Democrats want my guns and the Republicans want my porno mags and I ain't giving up either" - Joey Ramone
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To paraphrase:
Buy Microsoft Windows 8. 200 million users cannot be wrong.
Eat shite. 200 million flies can't be wrong.
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
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No paraphrasing needed, millions of people are often very wrong. I'm just kinda surprised anything that could sell 200 million could be considered a failure. I'd be ecstatic if i could sell 200 million of anything whether it was software, waffle irons, or pet rocks.
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Compare that to the number of Windows machines running on the planet (BILLIONS on them). 200 million licenses is nothing compared to that.
How many Surfaces (Windows 8 licenses!) are sitting in distributor warehouses right now?? Those are licenses that Microsoft has sold, but the distributor has yet to sell to a retailer and a retailer has yet to sell to a customer.
When you get a "sold" number like that from a manufacturer, that is supply-chain semantics spun by marketing.
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There are problems with the figure: MS count it as "sold" as soon as the device is manufactured, so that figure includes devices gathering dust in a warehouse.
It also counts Windows Phone, Surface and such like, rather than previously "just" desktop machines.
And of course, as Dave says - that doesn't count cases where it was "upgraded" to Windows 7 immediately after power on...
Even with those all counted, that's a long way behind the market penetration MS got with Win7 in the same time since it's launch (which was 20M desktop per month!). Remove phone, surface and "straight to bin" upgrades, and the market penetration is considerably behind where MS needs it to be. Market failure? Yes, I'm afraid it is.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Quote: 200 Million Windows 8 licenses sold is a market failure? Wish I could fail like that. Roll eyes | 
that doesn't count because they not selling win7 anymore, of course if there is no Win7, new pc will with win8...
what would happen if new laptop can come with win8, and also if those new laptops and pcs can allow the installment of win7? normal customers will not downgrade to win7 just because they don't know
now if your point is that they are selling, well yes, but its because there is not something else (mac and linux doesn't count, we are in win mode!!!)
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Hey ditto, Dave. What that expression...their failure is more successful than most people's success.
Also interesting how the same complaints resurface every 10 years or so.
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Maybe it's all a clever ploy to avoid more antitrust lawsuits. Look, we're not a monopoly... we don't know what we're doing... Until the next version!
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Thanks for reinforcing justifying my prejudices. I only did my first Win 7 system a few months ago.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Yeah, that's unfortunate that MS was trying to get back into game with this OS.
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Oh, do tell, what you hate about it?
(just curious, I'm with you!)
Marc
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Where do I begin?! 
First, look at this from the standpoint that I have some 8,500+ users who are used to Windows XP/7. Without any help at all, find Shutdown, Restart, or Logoff. Yeah, very different from what people are used to and not intuitive at all.
You basically have 2 different desktops. The "normal" (barely qualifies!) Desktop that we're all used to, an then there's the "other" (formally known as Metro) desktop that is just a mess to find stuff on and use a mouse with.
From an IT standpoint, you now have TWO interactive logon sessions when logged it at the console. I'm guessing that one is for Desktop and the other Metro. Apps start from the same screen, but depending on their type, can be on either desktop.
This is just a support NIGHTMARE without putting out a "How Do I..." guide to every workstation.
My personal view is that "THEY MOVED MY CHEESE!" Where the f'ck is this?? Where the f'uck is that??
Basically, it's way too big of a jump in the functionality of the UI. They should have made the changes to the UI more gradual changes so they don't loose and confuse users. My F-I-L would be completely lost using Win8.
The only reason we have a Win8.1 image at work at all is because a few big wigs wanted it. It's not going to be pushed to all desktops because of the learning curve and we're waiting to see what changes MS makes in Win9 to make it more "Enterprise Friendly"*.
* Your definition may vary from Microsofts.
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I built an 8.1 system last month. It was not 'hate at first sight' for me. But it is, well, still windows. Good luck with getting anything to work unless you first force an update of all the built-in apps.
One thing I like is the way it breaks out my Visual Studio installation into all the components. There is actually no need to trawl for GUIDGen or the VS Command Line.
Having said which, I haven't switched it on since.
I'm going to sell it to a Windows mug enthusiast as a going concern.
I also have an ancient box running 7 in the kitchen, which is good enough for any home work. My main PC's everyday are both 13.10 Ubuntu, which is fine by me. Free everything, no 'eye of the needle' booting, no expensive or adware riven applications and AV.
Just point and shoot.
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