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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Dave Kreskowiak wrote: We buy machines and they come with a Win8 license. The first we do is scrape 'em down to bare metal and slap it with the corporate Win7 load.
..and that's cheaper than a PC without an OS? I mean including the extra work you put in.
Actually...yes.
Enterprise volume licenses for Windows are incremental on top of existing Windows licenses; they can't be used by themselves. Typical corporate purchases of new machines include an OEM license for the least expensive business-class Windows product offered by the manufacturer; once the machine arrives the hard disk is wiped and the corporate VL image is installed.
Of course, for some hardware the manufacturer might not offer a Windows client. At my POE a few years ago we bought ~50 low-end servers to provide service quality monitoring across the network. The monitor tool ran on Windows 7 Enterprise, so we bought 50 copies of Vista Business, from which we cut out and saved the COA (to prove ownership of what Microsoft calls the "qualifying license") and threw the rest (including the disks) into the trash. That's more work (and more expensive) than would have been the case had we been able to buy an OEM Windows license as part of the hardware purchase.
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You're assuming you can get a machine without an OS. (There for a long time, you couldn't)
For myself, when I bought my latest laptop, it had Win8 on it.
I removed the hard-drive, swapped in a new hard-drive and slapped Linux Mint on it. 
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Ours come with both 7 and 8 images & licenses, we (as in not me) fire it up and choose the image to install (Win7 at the moment) so I'm buggered if I know how that works for the license counter....
If your neighbours don't listen to The Ramones, turn it up real loud so they can.
“We didn't have a positive song until we wrote 'Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue!'” ― Dee Dee Ramone
"The Democrats want my guns and the Republicans want my porno mags and I ain't giving up either" - Joey Ramone
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To paraphrase:
Buy Microsoft Windows 8. 200 million users cannot be wrong.
Eat shite. 200 million flies can't be wrong.
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
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No paraphrasing needed, millions of people are often very wrong. I'm just kinda surprised anything that could sell 200 million could be considered a failure. I'd be ecstatic if i could sell 200 million of anything whether it was software, waffle irons, or pet rocks.
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Compare that to the number of Windows machines running on the planet (BILLIONS on them). 200 million licenses is nothing compared to that.
How many Surfaces (Windows 8 licenses!) are sitting in distributor warehouses right now?? Those are licenses that Microsoft has sold, but the distributor has yet to sell to a retailer and a retailer has yet to sell to a customer.
When you get a "sold" number like that from a manufacturer, that is supply-chain semantics spun by marketing.
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There are problems with the figure: MS count it as "sold" as soon as the device is manufactured, so that figure includes devices gathering dust in a warehouse.
It also counts Windows Phone, Surface and such like, rather than previously "just" desktop machines.
And of course, as Dave says - that doesn't count cases where it was "upgraded" to Windows 7 immediately after power on...
Even with those all counted, that's a long way behind the market penetration MS got with Win7 in the same time since it's launch (which was 20M desktop per month!). Remove phone, surface and "straight to bin" upgrades, and the market penetration is considerably behind where MS needs it to be. Market failure? Yes, I'm afraid it is.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Quote: 200 Million Windows 8 licenses sold is a market failure? Wish I could fail like that. Roll eyes | 
that doesn't count because they not selling win7 anymore, of course if there is no Win7, new pc will with win8...
what would happen if new laptop can come with win8, and also if those new laptops and pcs can allow the installment of win7? normal customers will not downgrade to win7 just because they don't know
now if your point is that they are selling, well yes, but its because there is not something else (mac and linux doesn't count, we are in win mode!!!)
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Hey ditto, Dave. What that expression...their failure is more successful than most people's success.
Also interesting how the same complaints resurface every 10 years or so.
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Maybe it's all a clever ploy to avoid more antitrust lawsuits. Look, we're not a monopoly... we don't know what we're doing... Until the next version!
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Thanks for reinforcing justifying my prejudices. I only did my first Win 7 system a few months ago.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Yeah, that's unfortunate that MS was trying to get back into game with this OS.
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Oh, do tell, what you hate about it?
(just curious, I'm with you!)
Marc
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Where do I begin?! 
First, look at this from the standpoint that I have some 8,500+ users who are used to Windows XP/7. Without any help at all, find Shutdown, Restart, or Logoff. Yeah, very different from what people are used to and not intuitive at all.
You basically have 2 different desktops. The "normal" (barely qualifies!) Desktop that we're all used to, an then there's the "other" (formally known as Metro) desktop that is just a mess to find stuff on and use a mouse with.
From an IT standpoint, you now have TWO interactive logon sessions when logged it at the console. I'm guessing that one is for Desktop and the other Metro. Apps start from the same screen, but depending on their type, can be on either desktop.
This is just a support NIGHTMARE without putting out a "How Do I..." guide to every workstation.
My personal view is that "THEY MOVED MY CHEESE!" Where the f'ck is this?? Where the f'uck is that??
Basically, it's way too big of a jump in the functionality of the UI. They should have made the changes to the UI more gradual changes so they don't loose and confuse users. My F-I-L would be completely lost using Win8.
The only reason we have a Win8.1 image at work at all is because a few big wigs wanted it. It's not going to be pushed to all desktops because of the learning curve and we're waiting to see what changes MS makes in Win9 to make it more "Enterprise Friendly"*.
* Your definition may vary from Microsofts.
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I built an 8.1 system last month. It was not 'hate at first sight' for me. But it is, well, still windows. Good luck with getting anything to work unless you first force an update of all the built-in apps.
One thing I like is the way it breaks out my Visual Studio installation into all the components. There is actually no need to trawl for GUIDGen or the VS Command Line.
Having said which, I haven't switched it on since.
I'm going to sell it to a Windows mug enthusiast as a going concern.
I also have an ancient box running 7 in the kitchen, which is good enough for any home work. My main PC's everyday are both 13.10 Ubuntu, which is fine by me. Free everything, no 'eye of the needle' booting, no expensive or adware riven applications and AV.
Just point and shoot.
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I used to hate it, but I don't mind now. Its on my work machine. I wanted to hate it, but I realized that I spend about 95% of my day in Visual Studio and don't have to directly interact with it. When I do, it isn't that bad. I guess it depends on what you have to do with it. Learn some shortcut keys and focus your energy somewhere else.
Hogan
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Agreed. I've been using my Surface Pro essentially as a workstation for over a year now (I got a USB3 dock providing connections to my regular keyboard/mouse/3 monitors/everything else I can throw at it), and with all the shortcuts and pinned icons I have, I hardly ever see even the start screen, let alone any metro app.
It's really not as in-your-face as people make it out to be, once you actually start using it as if it was just 7.
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I do agree with u Hogan!!It is actually the case of "Change" happening and few of the users dont want it to happen!!!
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I'm not trolling, lord knows i do enough of that on Reddit.
On a serious note what exactly do you hate about Windows 8?
I use it at home and do some light development on it as well and i honestly like it, the 'Start' menu sucks balls but i just start typing and find what i'm looking for that way. Aside form the 'Start' menu i honestly don't know what people don't like about it
Don't comment your code - it was hard to write, it should be hard to read!
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I could get used to it, given a touch monitor.
My 8,500+ users though... They just moved way too much of the cheese making it a support nightmare in a corporate environment. We'd have to ship a "How Do I..." guide with every machine we deploy to the desktop. Mostly on how to use a mouse with a "touch" O/S.
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Ok, so its not so much personal taste and more of a support nightmare which i can understand. When you mention the touch monitor is that just for the new 'Start' menu? or all around use?
Don't comment your code - it was hard to write, it should be hard to read!
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It's personal taste too. I hate having two desktops.
The touch monitor would be all-around if you were using a ton of Metro apps. Normal Desktop isn't so bad. It just needs the Start menu back. The swiping menu thing just makes it harder to find what you're looking for without extra mouse clicks.
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I don't see it as two desktops.
I see it as one desktop with an expansive start menu (oh yeah, they call it metro).
When I use my win7 machines I have my desktop and a start button which opens the start menu.
The start menu contains some recently used and preset programs. I can toggle between that and the all programs (to get a list of programs installed on the machine).
When I use my win8 machine I have a start menu (metro, same as if I had clicked the start button on win7), except that I can organize my start menu by breaking it down to groups by categories and move the tiles to their respective groups. If I scroll down I can see all the programs installed on the machine.
In either case (or computer), I can install my programs and use them on my desktop same as I've always worked on the desktop. I can develop software on either one, I can test, run, install and uninstall as well. It's just the same.
Whenever I've installed upgraded versions of a previously install program, my first step is to figure out where they moved menu options. They're still there (usually), they just look different or are in a different place.
It's all about how YOU look at it.
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That's cute. Considering that one of my old laptops is still running on Vista.
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For personal use the cheap Start8 program neuters Modern/Metro just fine for me, but I can well understand how, even with Start8 or something like it, supporting mobs of users of all skill levels across an enterprise would be a nightmare.
Even using Start8, you can easily, by accident, get thrown back into the Modern tile-pit.
A friend of mine, in her seventies, a world-class art-history of Asia expert, describes learning to use Modern on her new Win8 laptop as being like having to live in world where the English alphabet has been suddenly replaced with Egyptian hieroglyphics 
I'm trying to get her to buy and install Start8.
“The best hope is that one of these days the Ground will get disgusted enough just to walk away ~ leaving people with nothing more to stand ON than what they have so bloody well stood FOR up to now.” Kenneth Patchen, Poet
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