Survey Results

FirstPrevNext

Re: "The programmers wrote it, they can test it." Christopher Duncan16-Sep-02 15:30 Christopher Duncan 16-Sep-02 15:30  Let's see now, I missed it in analysis, I missed it in design, I missed it in coding, I missed it in debugging, I missed it in unit testing, but wait! I'll catch it when I put on my QA wannabe cap, right?! Hey, makes about as much sense as anything else in this business... Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress) Re: "The programmers wrote it, they can test it." ColinDavies16-Sep-02 19:57 ColinDavies 16-Sep-02 19:57  Jon Sagara wrote: You can't effectively do both jobs at once. I agree, it's like proof-reading a document that you wrote. Many errors are natural to the developer. Regardz Colin J Davies Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me. Re: "The programmers wrote it, they can test it." Stephane Rodriguez.18-Sep-02 22:55 Stephane Rodriguez. 18-Sep-02 22:55  There must be outside people that test your programs, because they come with a fresh mind. Btw they'll not only show the bugs, they'll also actively suggest better UI and stuff. MS quote (http://www.microsoft.com/ddk) : As of September 30, 2002, the Microsoft® Windows® 2000 DDK, the Microsoft Windows 98 DDK, and the Microsoft Windows NT® 4.0 DDK will no longer be available for purchase or download on this site. QA is a joke (most of the time) Marc Clifton16-Sep-02 10:51 Marc Clifton 16-Sep-02 10:51  I worked for Robot Research a few years ago, eventually bought by Sensormatic (and now something else). They were the only company I ever worked for that had a functional QA department, with people who were actually intelligent. I'm really glad I had this positive experience, because everywhere eles I've been, the QA has been a joke. I learned how to code so that every user action is logged, so I don't have to rely on the QA department saying "I did X" when in reality, they did "Y". I've had people test functionality they were specifically told NOT TO TEST because it was still under development. I've given QA a detailed acceptance test procedure which was totally ignored. The ATP is useful because, of course, there's no documentation when QA wants to start testing, so they don't have the slightest idea what to do with the product, hence they need some basic walkthrough document. And then, there's getting management to pay for a real QA department. That's another battle. Oh, and lets not forget buying several different machines with different OS's to test the product. I guess this is why Florida spent >$30 MILLION and still can't get their election right. Jeez. I worked for an election company, and it just isn't that difficult (I think I could have done a lot better with just $1M!!!). Of course, election people are some of the stupidest people in the whole world. Oh boy, did this survey get me going. Marc Re: QA is a joke (most of the time) Gary R. Wheeler16-Sep-02 14:21 Gary R. Wheeler 16-Sep-02 14:21  QA = joke: Q: Who is the QA department for our company? A: Our customers, of course. Gary R. Wheeler Re: QA is a joke (most of the time) Marc Clifton16-Sep-02 14:45 Marc Clifton 16-Sep-02 14:45  Amen. Re: QA is a joke (most of the time) [James Pullicino]17-Sep-02 1:37 [James Pullicino] 17-Sep-02 1:37  nice one Drinking In The Sun Forgot Password? Re: QA is a joke (most of the time) Gary Wheeler18-Sep-02 1:44 Gary Wheeler 18-Sep-02 1:44  The bad thing is, it's not even a joke here at my company. Our initial customers on a new product routinely find more bugs in the first couple of months of operation than our testing group (such as they are) find during the entire time they're banging away on it. "Think of it as evolution in action." - 'Oath of Fealty' by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle Re: QA is a joke (most of the time) Not Active17-Sep-02 4:40 Not Active 17-Sep-02 4:40  I hear ya. I remember one QA tester who favorite method was to bang on the keys like a monkey. "See, it's broken. You need to fix it." It started getting worse after he took a few VB classes and started explaining to the C++ coders who to fix the code. Something in between Noam Ben Haim16-Sep-02 10:28 Noam Ben Haim 16-Sep-02 10:28  well, since we are too small a group to have a full size QC department, we are using the following arangement: each programmer in the team is responsible for one or more projects, as a QC guy. plus the client (whcih are ususally inhouse clients) are doing their own UAT (users a cceptance tests). but I am really am interested in something else: how much of you are CMM Level 2? Level 3? even heard of CMM? Noam Noam Ben Haim Web Developer Intel noam.ben.chaim@intel.com Re: Something in between Erik Frohne (Work)16-Sep-02 20:37 Erik Frohne (Work) 16-Sep-02 20:37  Hi all, Noam Ben Haim wrote: but I am really am interested in something else: how much of you are CMM Level 2? Level 3? even heard of CMM? Well, we are somewhere between CMM Level 1 and CMM Level 2, heading for more ... Erik. The opinion expressed here is solely mine. The QA leader is the biggest guy in the company Nemanja Trifunovic16-Sep-02 5:07 Nemanja Trifunovic 16-Sep-02 5:07  Yes, it is true. You know, whenever QA finds bugs, the first reaction from developers is screaming: "this is not a bug". But when this big man comes to your cubicle and says: "This is a bug!!!", somehow the answer usually is: "OK, I'll fix it". Re: The QA leader is the biggest guy in the company George16-Sep-02 8:14 George 16-Sep-02 8:14  Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: But when this big man comes to your cubicle and says: "This is a bug!!!", somehow the answer usually is: "OK, I'll fix it". Sounds like your shop is severely screwed - why does some QA guy bother developers in their cubicles? In here I will not lift a finger unless our project manager will tell me to do something. Users or testers are not allowed anywhere near the developers unless they can help in fixing something and assigned so... I C++, therefore I am... Re: The QA leader is the biggest guy in the company Nemanja Trifunovic16-Sep-02 9:10 Nemanja Trifunovic 16-Sep-02 9:10  George wrote: Sounds like your shop is severely screwed - why does some QA guy bother developers in their cubicles? Usually he doesn't. He justs assigns a bug to me in our bug-tracking system. But sometimes, I think this is not a bug, so I mark it as "not a bug", and then the QA guy needs to approve my decision. Generally, no product can be delivered until it is bug-free, and the QA decides when a product is "bug-free enough" . Re: The QA leader is the biggest guy in the company Navin18-Sep-02 6:43 Navin 18-Sep-02 6:43  Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: Generally, no product can be delivered until it is bug-free Sorry, I have to resist the urge to laugh anytime somebody says that.. There are three types of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't. Well it compiles ! Andrew Torrance16-Sep-02 0:14 Andrew Torrance 16-Sep-02 0:14  I kid you not ! This is about the only criteria many here use. Oh no, you can't fool me. There ain't no Sanity Clause! Re: Well it compiles ! Roger Allen16-Sep-02 2:04 Roger Allen 16-Sep-02 2:04  Andrew Torrance wrote: Well it compiles ! The first step to a successful program! Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 I think I need a new quote, I am on the prowl, so look out for a soft cute furry looking animal, which is really a Hippo in disguise. Its probably me. Re: Well it compiles ! Carlos Antollini16-Sep-02 9:50 Carlos Antollini 16-Sep-02 9:50  Adrew Torrance wrote: Well it compiles ! Roger Allen wrote: The first step to a successful program! I think that is the First And Only Step of M$....;P;P;P Carlos Antollini. Sonork ID 100.10529 cantollini Re: Well it compiles ! sanskypotov17-Sep-02 4:53 sanskypotov 17-Sep-02 4:53  Well Compilation comes afterwards, before it comes the big part "getting to the compilation stage " Sansky John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son ( Jesus Christ ) , that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Re: Well it compiles ! Brian Delahunty19-Sep-02 11:10 Brian Delahunty 19-Sep-02 11:10  Andrew Torrance wrote: This is about the only criteria many here use. I don't even get away with that one in college.. Have to be thoroughly tested !!! Regards, Brian Dela ISO ? ColinDavies15-Sep-02 19:28 ColinDavies 15-Sep-02 19:28  Anyone's place of work bother with the 9000 type compliance anymore ? Regardz Colin J Davies Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me. Re: ISO ? paulb15-Sep-02 19:40 paulb 15-Sep-02 19:40  We used to have it but thankfully dropped it after about a year. I always thought it was just a lot of useless paperwork. Re: ISO ? ColinDavies15-Sep-02 20:11 ColinDavies 15-Sep-02 20:11  Yeah, I feel that its a paper war as well. The basic principles are sound, but it seems to have been converted into a bureaucrats dream. Regardz Colin J Davies Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me. Re: ISO ? Christian Graus15-Sep-02 20:32 Christian Graus 15-Sep-02 20:32  If Dilbert's comments are anything to go by ( and by Dilbert, I of course mean Scott Adams ) then I hope not. Christian Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002 Re: ISO ? Gary Wheeler16-Sep-02 1:40 Gary Wheeler 16-Sep-02 1:40  Yep, ISO-9001 compliant here. Except for the software, of course. Since we're a hardware company, and software is a silly little add-on (it just runs the machinery, you know), we're officially documented (in an ISO-9000 way) that our software development process is not ISO-9000 compliant. "Think of it as evolution in action." - 'Oath of Fealty' by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle

Last Visit: 31-Dec-99 18:00     Last Update: 7-Jun-24 12:12 Refresh ᐊ Prev123 Next ᐅ

General    News    Suggestion    Question    Bug    Answer    Joke    Praise    Rant    Admin   

Use Ctrl+Left/Right to switch messages, Ctrl+Up/Down to switch threads, Ctrl+Shift+Left/Right to switch pages.