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There's something you should all realize...software developers can be had for cheap wages. You see, we get fulfillment out of making it work. We aren't in the business of making someone hand us big checks, so we don't direct our efforts to getting good at making someone hand us big checks.
Salesmen, on the other hand, have one purpose in life: come back with a check, or give up their own check.
Also, most firms can get by without a software developer. No firm can get by without a sales force, because business depends on things being sold.
"Sales is king." - quoted from multitudinous business sources
I started my career in business as a salesman. I'm proud to say that I switched to a profession where I rarely if ever have to put my integrity behind my greed - few salespeople can make that boast.
Christopher P. Kile
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cpkilekofp wrote: most firms can get by without a software developer
Not to offend but from a developer's perspective this query would apply. Wouldn't that be like a mortuary with no active development and just but old products being circulated and rotated? How long would that keep rolling unless there is an active development at all?
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar
Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis Levinson
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Anyone that picks up a paint brush can call there self a painter, but few people can apply it with a high level of skill. The ones that can leave a lasting impression, those don't leave a mess for someone else!
Mike
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the
moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"
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Mike that is so true !
Wisdom is often meant as the ability and desire to make choices that can gain approval in a long-term examination by many people.
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Cape Town Developer wrote: Wisdom is often meant as the ability and desire to make choices that can gain approval in a long-term examination by many people.
Hadn't seen this before...Good saying
Cape Town Developer wrote: Mike that is so true !
Thanks,
Mike
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the
moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"
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Mike Hankey wrote: few people can apply it with a high level of skill
I have found out recently that few painters can apply paint as well as I do. Long story short we ended up firing 3 painters because their work (on two bathrooms) looked like that this was the first thing they ever painted. All the edges were horrible (no where near straight), they obviously did no prep work at all. I really can not believe they would assume that was acceptable for a nice house.
Last modified: 21mins after originally posted --
John
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John,
John M. Drescher wrote: I have found out recently that few painters can apply paint as well as I do
Over the years I've convinced my customers (by demonstration) that the above is true. In particular I did a little carpentry work for a customer, who became a good friend. It took him and a helper 1 wk. to prime the inside of a 1200 sq. ft. house and did an OK job. He fired his helper and hired me to do the job but was reluctant to pay me regular price. I told him if he didn't like the job I did after I was finished he didn't owe me anything. I had the job down in two days and he hasn't touched a paint brush since and gave me a tip!
You get what you pay for!
Mike
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the
moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"
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When I started back in the early 70's, I was put in a class of 12 people for 6 weeks to learn IBM assembler - forwards, backwards, sideways and through wormhole gateways if necessary.
Now, it takes about 6-8 hours to teach a moderately intelligent 16 yr old how to program a simple application using the MS Express tools (student attention span allowing).
You tell me if I should feel proud at the amount of effort I expended to learn all I do know, or if we should feel proud at the incredible advances we have made in automating the work over the last 20 years?
Perhaps a better question is "are you proud that you could write a program to make a sinclair calculate your taxes, build the printer driver to print the results, and hack a parallel to USB plug using using nothing but bobby pins?" 
Honestly, I'm more proud that I can take a business idea all the way through to a decent design and implementation without spending $6,000 on "How to ..." books!
Nothing is impossible, we just don't know the way of it yet.
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I'm not proud of it, but I'm glad I chose it. I'd probably be more proud of it though if I wasn't stuck doing web dev currently.
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+1 on all counts.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Hi
It's the quality of the work that should make someone proud, in any profession.
"Silence will create respect and dignity; justice and fair play will bring more friends;
benevolence and charity will enhance prestige and position; courtesy will draw benevolence;
service of mankind will secure leadership and good words will overcome powerful enemies"
Ali (Peace be upon him)
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In fact usually I over-simplfy what I do.... "I am just a lowly software developer, I do a user interface or two."
and leave it at that. It isn't that I am not proud, I am glad I do what I do. I just don't think I need to brag about it. My cousin's a lawyer, she doesn't brag either. It just is.
It's not like it is a competition to see who did best in life. I certainly don't have a great record there, discounting career, so nothing really to brag about there either.
Computer programming is like pinball. The reward for doing it well, is getting to do it again. 
_________________________
Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau.
Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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El Corazon wrote: Computer programming is like pinball. The reward for doing it well, is getting to do it again.
With your Intel C/C++ compiler that I don't have yet. 
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: With your Intel C/C++ compiler that I don't have yet.
It's just a compiler, Jeremy.  There are a lot of compilers. Many of the same features are in other compilers, Intel just makes it a hair faster in the final code.
_________________________
Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau.
Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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El Corazon wrote: Intel just makes it a hair faster in the final code
Actually, I'm wondering. Any speed gains on AMDs too or is the performance boost specific to Intel processors?
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Actually, I'm wondering. Any speed gains on AMDs too or is the performance boost specific to Intel processors?
Shhhhhhh!!!! don't tell Intel, but SSE is used by more than them.... 
You can't optimize for 3DNow for AMD, but any of the common instruction sets, you enable support for in the compiler and you can optimize the heck out of your binary for AMD or Intel. SSE2 is common enough now that you don't limit anyone, but at least SSE.
_________________________
Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau.
Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I am proud of what I do but this is mostly because I am involved in cancer research. If I was developing software to stream porn out to 10 million customers I am not sure I would tell anyone...
John
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Developing integrated methods to deliver high availability, high bandwidth, interactive content to millions of concurrent users.
Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway
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John M. Drescher wrote: If I was developing software to stream porn out to 10 million customers I am not sure I would tell anyone...
Erm....
Actually, it's quite fun seeing their shocked expressions. Especially in certain circles, like the newagey Waldorf community. You can be talking esotericism one moment and porn the next!
Marc
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But porn increases quality of life. 
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: But porn increases quality of life.
Maybe, but it can surely decrease quantity of life if abused. 
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And I try not to admit it either, because then people ask me if I can fix their computer.
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I hate having to listen to the story about so-and-so who does "exactly" what I do and is such a genius he can fix anything. When I meet a Mechanical Engineer I don't ask him to change the oil in my car or tell him about my nephew Bob who changes tires at Walmart.
Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: And I try not to admit it either, because then people ask me if I can fix their computer.
Oh man, you hit the nail right on the head. And I love those "my computer is acting wierd, do you think you could help me?" ARGH! I need a portable billing meter, a battery powered equivalent of what the have in taxicabs.
Marc
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: because then people ask me if I can fix their computer.
This is one of the most amazing concepts. I can't imagine doing that for any other career. But it is like this magical miracle capability. "oh wow, you understand computers!! can you fix mine I ruined because I did not??"
_________________________
Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau.
Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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