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PJ Arends wrote: If someone asks a question about 'A' then answer the question about 'A', do not tell them that 'A' is the wrong approach and they had better use 'B' instead.
I see your point. However, it's also a good idea for them to point out how to do B if B indeed is a better approach.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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PJ Arends wrote: Years ago CP was a very good place to both ask and answer questions.
I don't think CP was ever a very good Q&A community. It's the articles that make it a great place. Years ago, there were also good technology-related discussions in the Lounge, but that's gone.
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I can't really speak for all, in my quests to find answers I found StackOverFlow pretty much useless this caused me to find CP and all is well, questions got answered with no abuse. Can't say I am surprised though!
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I have never actually asked a question on SO, however I get 90% of my answers from them. If I can't find an answer on SO I ask the question on CP 
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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I hadn't realized that it was ever intended for beginners. I'd always assumed that a misunderstanding of this was the source of much pain for the inept, lazy and inarticulate.
Granted, the article you linked to showed some really poor behaviour in terms of questions being closed. However, the biggest contributor to poor content has always been in my opinion those whom are rep-whores or newbies. I've had precisely one poor experience with a high-rep user, perhaps I'm sheltered or have been rather fortunate. Admittedly, I've only asked 1 question.
It's a site for grown-ups and I'm perfectly happy to see it offending the sensibilities of those who dont care to familiarize themselves with the expectations and culture of the site. Other places are where you go if you want to have a conversation or to feel warm-and-fuzzy. Stack-Overflow is where you go if you'd like a specific question answered.
As a kid, mum always said "I'm not going to reward poor behaviour." Whining for something in the supermarket not only meant obtaining it was impossible, but also that chances of something next time were poor at best. Sure, holding everyone to such a standard is difficult if not impossible - is that a reason to not try though? I dont think it is.
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I disagree. Right at the top of the pages is are both Questions and Ask Question button.
It's a Q&A site... nothing more.
I've been coding for 30 years and seen a lot of forums. SO is the only one where I get regularly flamed. I agree with the article.. the member and mods seems to go out of their way to ridicule and insult OP's because of a typo or some other non-question related issue.
To be blunt - if someone doesn't have an answer, DON'T ANSWER... how hard is that?
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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Kevin Marois wrote: I disagree.
With what, exactly?
Kevin Marois wrote: Right at the top of the pages is are both Questions and Ask Question button.
Actually, even closer to the top of the page is a menu option titled 'help' - the very first option of which is "Tour" - Start here for a quick overview of the site. I dont find anything presented there ambiguous. Many(most?) of the posts that receive a hostile reception are ones which have clearly not given consideration to the directions contained in this introduction page.
The very first words on the page are in fact, "Stack Overflow is a question and answer site for professional and enthusiast programmers."- that in itself clearly and unequivocally (to me) says the site is not for beginners.
Kevin Marois wrote: I've been coding for 30 years and seen a lot of forums. SO is the only one where I get regularly flamed. I agree with the article.. the member and mods seems to go out of their way to ridicule and insult OP's because of a typo or some other non-question related issue.
Same, you've about 5 years on me - but don't you remember Usenet? Now that was a truly frosty and hostile environment with a far less clear mission statement. I've been flamed at SO once that I can recall - from some fella working as an Aus defence contractor with a rep of 400,000 or so.
I guess my experiences have more fortunate than yours. I think the fact that it's aimed primarily at professional programmers speaks volumes for why some people are treated like fools. Walking into SO and asking how to put together a Hello World program is just begging for a smacking.
Kevin Marois wrote: To be blunt - if someone doesn't have an answer, DON'T ANSWER... how hard is that?
It's all well and good to say that someone shouldn't answer if they don't have one, but it's an entirely different thing to read the Tour page and do as is said to be expected. Its expected that clarification will be sought, errors fixed and strident effort applied to make the site good. I agree that in many cases, an insulting comment will be supplied, rather than a simple, silent edit of the question. But surely political correctness for the sake of the thin-skinned does more damage than good?
Poor answers should be discouraged, as should poor questions. Failure to do so simply allows the signal:noise ratio to decrease, which is in no-ones best interests. Can you look at QA around here and tell me with a straight face that it does a better job?
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Your points are very constructive. However when you require 'articulate' I would qualify that a little. People who do not have English as a first language can be assisted to get the question clear. Also I see no reason why a beginner cannot ask a reasonable question so making them feel excluded as part of a mission statement is not necessary. Just apply the same rules to all. I agree fully with your comments about maintaining quality and discouraging dud answers.
Peter Wasser
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
modified 3-Dec-15 21:50pm.
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Another well considered response, as always. 
I find it amusing that my touching on the topic of being articulate was not particularly articulate itself. You've qualified it nicely. It's common to see questions written in pidgin English which display far more effort than those of many native speakers - I for one am disappointed when conscientious non-native speakers are punished. Its precisely these types of questions that I find so enriching and often, the biggest take-away with real use in the face-face world.
If my German was 1/2 as good as the pidgin English usually is, I'd feel very fortunate.
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I happen to be pretty hard nosed, and thick skinned. Technically an adult. I've already written my program in VBA and am learning Python.
1v1 me bro.
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PythonHeadBanger wrote: I happen to be pretty hard nosed, and thick skinned. Technically an adult. I've already written my program in VBA and am learning Python.
1v1 me bro.
Laughs. Thanks for that, here catch a vote. (1v1 me bro.)
Syntactical white-space should be against the geneva convention, I gave up on python a decade ago, for this and other reasons. The fact that its the scripting language of Blender is the only reason I ever bothered with it. NumPy is quite nice, but not quite enough to make it worthwhile for me.
Pick a time and a place my friend. I taught myself Turbo Pascal while in detention in high-school and moved on to x86 assembly from there. In uni, people asked me more questions than the lecturer in programming class.
Your turn! 
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#HeadBangerWREKT
I will look into Blender as that seems like some pretty cool stuff. Thanks for the heads up.
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I always love a good-sport. 
Yeah, Blender was pretty damn good when I used it last, at around version 2.49 or so. Around the time that the interface changed for v 2.50, I no longer needed it for day-day work, it's well worth the buy-in price ($0)
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I've never liked SO. I've been downright attacked and insulted in response to perfectly acceptable questions.
I agree 100% with the article.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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I once contributed to the site. The positive feedback mechanism of points for helping is rather addictive. But, I've come to see a common pattern. That those who don't want to learn go there for copy-paste code. I find myself avoiding Stack Overflow, it is better to read the docs instead.
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I second the article, did very well on experts exchange 'in the old days' until amongst other reasons it closed itself in a way. I see wannebees that are hunting points inflating the qualtity of it all, and that is not just on stack overflow unfortunately. Too bad.
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I'm reluctant to post questions on SO, despite having 18 years experience as a software developer. There is definitely an elitist mindset amongst many who post over there. Downvoting is common even for sensible questions, and it is very competitive in terms of gaining rep points.
As an example, I posted a question on there a couple of months ago. We've just begun looking into using TeamCity as our Continuous Integration server. I have a lot of previous experience with CruiseControl.NET so am not some noobie. I understand the theory and concepts, so just wanted some general guidance on approaches to configuring TeamCity with TFS. So my question was open-ended as I was looking for advice and guidance.
I checked my question later at lunch time to find that it had been downvoted twice and closed - "Question closed as vague and cannot be answered”. I had to delete the question for fear of losing more rep points.
CP is a far more welcoming and helpful place to visit, and I want to see that continuing. CP is (IMO) the best technical resource on the Internet by a long way
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare
Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
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I find myself in the same position as you - petty downvoting appears to be the norm at stackoverflow.
Which was why after a week of creating an account, I had closed it.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Sorry, but ... I never thought that it should be useful for beginners ... 
Cheers,
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I don't ask questions - I read documentation. The only reason in my company we asked for unlocking CP and SO is that MSDN redirects here or there in most of the search results.
That bein said, EVERY time I clicked on a SO answer I did not only NOT get what I wanted but read many flaming / useless answers and the common "what are you trying to do is the wrong way" (I know but it's the only one I have access to so answer me or shut up), "the technology you're using is outdated" (I know that too I must stick to that so answer or shut up) ans d so on.
Here I normally find at least an article covering it, sometimes even an answered question - having been in the dreaded Linux forums I know it is a rare occasion indeed.
Regarding the behaviour of some high-rep users here closing or downvoting beginners question I find it on the very limit of abuse - if a question has been already answered or there are article covering it at least link to them, and do it nicely. Most poeple cannot Google their way out because they DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO ASK. You can help them or smear them - if you do the latter remember that karma is a bit and it's always behind the corner.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
"When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." -- Mike Hankey
"just eat it, eat it"."They're out to mold, better eat while you can" -- HobbyProggy
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I created an account on stack overflow and found all my answers were downvoted or heavily criticised for what amounted to petty reasons.
While on codeproject I tend to find that people are much more appreciative of help.
My take on stackoverflow is that it has been taken over by petty minded people who will downvote low-status members no matter how good their answers are - this then helps maintain their own position in their petty hierarchy.
The problem with this is that stackoverflow is replete with good answers that have been downvoted and decent questions that are closed because they don't meet some weird criteria set on the basis of the fiat of some cliquey in-group.
So while as a source stackoverflow is fairly decent - as a community it simply sucks!
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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I both like and dislike stack exchange. I think the community is to harsh. Nowadays I might be to blame but when I got a small problem that I'm having trouble to explain or just need some quick answers/directions I use stack exchange. Just to have a baited hook in the sea. But I do try to explain my current question as detailed as possible as well as what research I've done.
If it's something bigger where I also have a greater chance of bettering myself I use CP. Mainly because of the community.
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"77% of users only ask one question"
That must get really repetitive and annoying.
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To which the answer is obviously 42.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Thank you for sharing this!
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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