|
mikepwilson wrote: PHP is a godawful mess, and C# is tightly platform specific.
Yes, PHP is a mess, but I like it, (I had to learn it, and I found it fantastic after a while), though nowadays I believe a "from scratch" re-writing of PHP in it's entirety might be in order.
C# is no longer Windows exclusive, due to Mono, and if I understand the news coming from Microsoft, C# will get a "native" compiler, making it much more flexible.
I have had a look at it, just to help my friend with some of the concepts, but I don't see the attraction. I feel this joke I heard:
Two programmers are standing at a bar talking shop, when a teen swagers over, and join the conversation. He asks the two older programmers what languages they are using. One of the guys answers: "I do OS development, mostly in C++". The other Guy answers: "I mostly do enterprise applications development in C#", The kid then says: "Coool, I myself program in Py...". In the Police report, the kid fell 14 times against the two programmers' fists.
-Sums up my attitude towards Python.
But hey, arguing over programming languages, (and IDE's, text editors, code formatting, etc,), is sometimes like arguing politics :P
-Frank
|
|
|
|
|
No, CSharp is not platform specific. And CSharp is free, not like Java that is Oracle's property. CSharp is like JavaScript, it's standard by ECMA. Why people think that only because it was created by Microsoft, it is platform specific. This is stupidity. Haskell was created inside Microsoft too.
I Also suggest you to learn it.
|
|
|
|
|
See, this is why I'm so very glad I asked everyone what languages they think I should learn.
|
|
|
|
|
Frank Reidar Haugen wrote: WhyPython
Because his teacher knows it and probably nothing else. 
Frank Reidar Haugen wrote: I want him to have a look at C-like languages in-stead,
Good advice because, as you said, there are a lot of C varients around.
Frank Reidar Haugen wrote: he is adamant that his teacher must be correct in saying that Python is what the programmers need today, to be hireable.
Tell him to go to job sites and compare the number of Python jobs to the number of C, C++, C#, PHP, etc.,jobs available. 
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
|
|
|
|
|
JimmyRopes wrote: Because his teacher knows it and probably nothing else.
Great responses. Definitely true.
JimmyRopes wrote: Tell him to go to job sites and compare the number of Python jobs to the number of C, C++, C#, PHP, etc.,jobs available.
Right on!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Relevant XKCD[^]
My guess is either the teacher is using it due to the simplicity and/or readability angle. Either that or the teacher has notes in Python and doesn't want to update (more common than you'd think).
I often think whether there is space for a programming language specifically for teaching, where you can start with simple procedural code, and switch flags on/off (like Option Explicit in VB I suppose) to access more advanced syntax. It'd be interesting if this is possible: Duck Typing vs static would be an effort, would (and could) you want to switch between paradigms (FP/OO etc).
|
|
|
|
|
Keith Barrow wrote: I often think whether there is space for a programming language specifically for teaching,
Problem with that is that no-one will want to learn it - as it has no commercial use. And if it gets picked up as a commercial language, everyone will just belittle it in the same way they do VB (and probably for the same reasons)
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
|
|
|
|
|
Yep, though, curiously, I think this is exactly how BASIC started out. TBH the idea is more of an intellectual exercise rather than anything I'd ever get round to starting, a bit like an extended esolang.
As for belittling,yes they would, but meh. Pretty much anyone who belittles any language (me included I've had the more than odd pop at VB) has achieved less than anyone who has actually designed one. Much easier to snipe from the sidelines than to actually do.
|
|
|
|
|
Pretty much - BASIC started as a language for non-programmers (and a quick look at QA could persuade you it still is)
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
|
|
|
|
|
Odd that, at my old school (where I studied EE, not CS) they taught ML, not because it was popular but rather because it wasn't popular, which meant that the teachers could teach programming instead of a language.
The students had lots of opinions about that.
|
|
|
|
|
Jörgen Andersson wrote: could teach programming instead of a language
Hear! Hear! 
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
There have been plenty of "teaching" languages in the past BASIC, LOGO, Pascal, Modula 2 to name just 4.
|
|
|
|
|
We were taught Modula-2[^] at university in the first year because it was a good language to teach with although we wouldn't ever meet it in the outside world.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
|
|
|
|
|
Frank Reidar Haugen wrote: Why Python?
Because Rattlesnake just won't do? 
If first you don't succeed, hide all evidence you ever tried!
|
|
|
|
|
Because Monty Rattlesnake sounds silly?
It'ssssssss.... b-dum de diddly dum de dum, de dum de dum de dee... Monty Rattlesnake's Flying Circusssses!
Nah.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
|
|
|
|
|
Is that any worse than "A Horse, a Spoon and a Bucket", or "Owl Stretching Time"?
I'll accept that "Bun, Wackett, Buzzard, Stubble and Boot" would probably have been too long for the TV listings, and "Vaseline Review" would have attracted entirely the wrong sort of viewer. "The Toad Elevating Moment" might have worked though.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
|
|
|
|
|
Indeed, we have the Radio Times to thank for the "Flying Circus" part!
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
|
|
|
|
|
And ASP was already taken...
Will Rogers never met me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I came from a school that required writing a shell for UNIX in C as a 200 level class  Our intro was in C++, by the time we graduated, the dept. moved to Java, and never taught it to us. So our high level classes required us to learn a new language at the same time we did the course work
I worked in embedded C, did some C++ with MFC, and then went back to get a M.S. My favorite class in the entire program was one that used Python for the final project and we had to create a game where the models / engine / art were provided for us.
I really liked Python, and would not hesitate to take a job with it.
|
|
|
|
|
Pualee wrote: I really liked Python, and would not hesitate to take a job with it.
The problem is finding a job coding Python, compared to C variants. The teacher is telling them that Python is what they need be hireable.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
modified 2-Jun-14 11:21am.
|
|
|
|
|
Good point, I lost sight of that...
It's not just CS teachers that are out of touch with reality though. Most of them seem to have an agenda to push. I think it come with the territory as they are always the 'expert' and the class never/rarely is. So the professors end up in a situation where they are always right and ever challenged.
Somehow, businesses keep finding people to hire... although it is quite telling now that the value of a 4 year degree is being questioned 
|
|
|
|
|
Pualee wrote: It's not just CS teachers that are out of touch with reality though. Most All of them seem to have an agenda to push.
FTFY. 
Pualee wrote: I think it come with the territory as they are always the 'expert' and the class never/rarely is. So the professors end up in a situation where they are always right and [n]ever challenged.
People who challenge the professor get a poor grade. It is a matter of survival. 
Pualee wrote: it is quite telling now that the value of a 4 year degree is being questioned
Especially for software developers. People coming out of university need to be trained as much as people without formal education. Sometimes the people without formal education are the self starters that need less supervision.
Tell them what you want done and they do it the way you taught them to do it. Tell a CS university graduate what you want done and prepare to discuss pro and con about various coding paradigms.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
|
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
