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I think the argument breaks down when you realize both offer keyboard shortcuts. Then it's just a matter of what you know best. As for 'to visual', there's not really a point in debating this, as it's a moot point, modern designs that are more accessible generally do better en mass.
I think yes, if I were an office 2003 pro, I too would be more resistant, because users generally resist change, and let's be honest, the ribbon is a big change. That doesn't mean the change is less beneficial, it just means it inconveinences power users, in the long run, we'll see more and more commercial scale windows apps adapting this design, it's inevitable, and resistance is futile.
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I agree with the problems you mention for menus, but I don't see how the ribbon solves that fundamentally.
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server
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Well, it allows you to group commands better than any menu. It might not be the silver bullet, but it's a lot faster to scan the ribbon for a command, than it is to go through menus, submenus, and furthermore submenus...
--
Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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I think my response is typical of people I've polled. I hated the ribbon in Office 2007, but I used it for about two weeks to get some work done. When I switched back (happily) to older Office, I quickly realized how much I had grown to like the ribbon and how much I missed it. In two weeks or so using the ribbon had become habituated and I hadn't noticed, which is certainly the mark of a good design.
I kept using my prior Office for a week or so, figuring I was wrong and really did prefer it. I thought is was just neophilia. But no, the ribbon really is better.
I still miss some of the basic WIMP commands I had so ingrained that I barely realize I'm using them, but the keyboard shortcuts are mostly there if you want them (they pop up when you hit an alt-key) and the addon that searches the ribbon and shows you where a command is solves the rest of my problems.
I'm starting to notice when another app doesn't have a ribbon interface and wonder why. The newer (non-MS) apps that do use it are still hit-and miss as to whether they "get" how to layout the UI, but we'll get there over time.
I've had some friends refuse to try 2007 because they feared the ribbon. I asked them if they thought Win95 was a bad step because they knew Program Manager. They sheepishly try it and have the same experience I do.
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Have to take the hearsay that Windows 0007 incorporate use of the ribbon as gospel because haven't bought that OS, however my initial horror at the discovery of this object in my Office Professional 2007 (service Desk Edition) was short-lived. I've adopted the philosphy that "additions" to software programs are generally for the good. The main reason that would be so, with regards to Office and the ribbon, is the fact that keyboard input is less nebulous than it has been in the past.
So, probably, Go See It.
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RedDK wrote: "additions" to software programs are generally for the good
Sure, but replacements aren't as good. Go ahead and add something, but don't remove the old way or you risk alienating your user-base.
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I am a developer. That is, I spend most of my time in Visual Studio.
I use Office as a secondary tool, when I need to write a design document
or write down my project hours in Excel.
I used to be quite proficient in previous versions of Office. I would get in,
know where everything is, and get the job done.
Now I spend ages looking for commands I used to know how to find blind fold.
So, a command that used to take me two mouse clicks (Menu + Command), or at
most three clicks (Menu + SubMenu + Command), to find, now takes switching
between 3 Ribbon Tabs, hovering with the mouse over some buttons to see the
tooltip, cursing ("just yesterday I found this, where is this command hiding again?"),
and then I find it.
This is all before talking about Screen real-estate.
Another issue is ease of customization, or lack there of. In previous versions I could
customize my toolbars to include whatever commands I wanted. Is that even possible
with the ribbon?
Did I mention Loading Time? Ah, that has nothing to do with the Ribbon.
Did I say "hate it with a vengence" yet?
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I am also a developer and hate anything that interrupts my working performance, meaning instead of having a set of 30+ frequently used developer related shortcuts on the quicklaunch bar (as in one of my XP VM's), Windows 7 only permits a handful (why why why does each icon take so much horizontal space up???). Another pain in the arse is the fact apps open up in the same location as their shortcut - thereby moving all other icons to the right!!!! I HATE Windows 7 toolbar layout. At least in Vista there's the ability to revert the GUI back to XP style toolbar/start menu  .
Another gripe is the Office 2007 ribbonbar - finding icons etc., used to be something what was straightfoward in previous versions, but is no longer the case in Office 2007. AAARRRGGGG!!!!! Bring on an "XP" visual compatability style!!!!!
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Eeloo low ten-lanu may-tim cahol: Da-Yay-Nu
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"It's a sad state of affairs, indeed, when you start reading my tag lines for some sort of enlightenment. Sadder still, if that's where you need to find it." - Balboos HaGadol
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Yeah, I see no reason to "upgrade" yet. WinXP and Office 2003 do what I need for the foreseeable future.
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My wife's laptop came with Vista and a trial version of Office 2007; we tried it (Office) for a while, didn't like it, uninstalled it, and installed Office 2003. So, no, I don't like the ribbon, but mainly because I'm used to the old way. I'm sure new users will be able to work with it just fine. I've been using WinWord since V2.0; I see no reason why I should change how I interact with it.
So when, at the Windows 7 launch event, a presenter got up to talk about how the ribbon will now be available to developers and began (not verbatim), "Microsoft believes that consistency in user interface is very important to the success of a product..." I finished the sentence with, "therefore they took the way everyone has been doing things on every GUI for the last twenty years and thrown it out."
I doubt Apple and the others will run out and add ribbons (at least I hope they won't), therefore Microsoft has gone out of their way to be inconsistent.
With Internet Explorer 7 and 8, you can have the menu if you like (I do); is that available with Office 2007? Can I have the old menues and toolbars if I choose?
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: is that available with Office 2007? Can I have the old menues and toolbars if I choose?
No idea about the toolbars, but it is easy to minimize the ribbon and make it look like a menu. Just press Ctrl+F1
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: Can I have the old menues and toolbars if I choose?
There are some add-ins, but actually they put buttons on one ribbon tab in such a way that it looks like Office 2003 a little bit. For the menu it's the same but it isn't very practical either. Moreover, those add-ins cost some money as well. If you prefer the Office 2003 style, I really wouldn't recommend upgrading.
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I don't do add-ins; I want to reduce the number of things I rely on that may not be on every system I may use.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: I've been using WinWord since V2.0
what is wrong with WinWord 1.0?
Don't tell me you have been using WordPerfect 
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
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I never used V1.0; where I worked at the time very few computers had Windows* so they used WordPerfect  . When I bought my first PC in '92 it came with Windows 3.0 and I bought WinWord 2.0 to go with it (actually I tried Works first and found it lacking).
* It was a college. The lab PCs had Windows, but it was only used to run PageMaker.
P.S. I didn't use WordPerfect very much; mostly to help out those who did. For most of my own documentation I used the word processor on the VAX. 
modified on Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:04 PM
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I was using MacWrite at that time, never used WordPerfect...
And no ribbons there either.
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
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Complaints
1. Some of the functions that I like to use are not on the default displays.
So I waste a lot of time looking around the ribbons to try and find it, and then go into the too long list of all commands, and add the command.
Pet Peeve - Every other list in Windows supports typing multiple keystrokes to refine matches.
The All commands acts like a windows 2.1 list control in that it only matches the FIRST letter.
Type FI and you end up at the I commands!
2. The old menu's make it easier to locate functions that you think should exist. Brand new users to Office may never figure out some of the more powerful features.
Oh, I guess there is no Undo/Redo feature in this application!
3. I am holding at Office 2003 at home. My next new computer will probably utilize Open Office.
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englebart wrote: I am holding at Office 2003 at home. My next new computer will probably utilize Open Office.
How about hosted applications like Zoho Writer (http://writer.zoho.com/[^]) and Google Docs (http://docs.google.com/[^])
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar
Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep!
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englebart wrote: 2. The old menu's make it easier to locate functions that you think should exist. Brand new users to Office may never figure out some of the more powerful features.
Actually, according to MS the whole ribbon thing was designed because people kept requesting features that already existed, but they just weren't getting deep enough in the menus to find them. They also admitted that new users actually have an easier time adjusting to the ribbon than office 2003 power users.
englebart wrote: ;
Oh, I guess there is no Undo/Redo feature in this application!</blockquote>
Undo and Redo are above the ribbon, next to the "office button", right next to save.
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Although I downloaded all versions of Windows 7 (and keys) from MSDN, so as to be ready for developing in that environment, I've yet to install it on a machine - and no one I know has installed it (small world of the second kind)
So - I picked ambivalent/No Opionion - when, in fact, the Don't Know/Haven't Tried It option should have been there, too.
C:\> :: - now that's an interface!
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"It's a sad state of affairs, indeed, when you start reading my tag lines for some sort of enlightenment. Sadder still, if that's where you need to find it." - Balboos HaGadol
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Well maybe not quite - but close!
It requires users to have to relearn and takes up real estate (not everone has 24" screens) - one user being forced on to Windows 7 and Office 2007 can't I have my old XP and office back - have work to do!
While on the subject of Windows 7, am I the only one who is getting complaints about Windows 7 as being worse than Vista/XP - or is this the 'Kings New cloths' syndrome
To quote users
Networking doesn’t work anymore
Where has everything moved to
Its slow (networking and copying)
and even one 'I prefer Vista.....' Really!
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not for me, I think its faster, more reliable and less a pain in the a** than Vista
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