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PIEBALDconsult wrote: Can I have the old menues and toolbars if I choose?
There are some add-ins, but actually they put buttons on one ribbon tab in such a way that it looks like Office 2003 a little bit. For the menu it's the same but it isn't very practical either. Moreover, those add-ins cost some money as well. If you prefer the Office 2003 style, I really wouldn't recommend upgrading.
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I don't do add-ins; I want to reduce the number of things I rely on that may not be on every system I may use.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: I've been using WinWord since V2.0
what is wrong with WinWord 1.0?
Don't tell me you have been using WordPerfect 
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
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I never used V1.0; where I worked at the time very few computers had Windows* so they used WordPerfect  . When I bought my first PC in '92 it came with Windows 3.0 and I bought WinWord 2.0 to go with it (actually I tried Works first and found it lacking).
* It was a college. The lab PCs had Windows, but it was only used to run PageMaker.
P.S. I didn't use WordPerfect very much; mostly to help out those who did. For most of my own documentation I used the word processor on the VAX. 
modified on Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:04 PM
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I was using MacWrite at that time, never used WordPerfect...
And no ribbons there either.
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
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Complaints
1. Some of the functions that I like to use are not on the default displays.
So I waste a lot of time looking around the ribbons to try and find it, and then go into the too long list of all commands, and add the command.
Pet Peeve - Every other list in Windows supports typing multiple keystrokes to refine matches.
The All commands acts like a windows 2.1 list control in that it only matches the FIRST letter.
Type FI and you end up at the I commands!
2. The old menu's make it easier to locate functions that you think should exist. Brand new users to Office may never figure out some of the more powerful features.
Oh, I guess there is no Undo/Redo feature in this application!
3. I am holding at Office 2003 at home. My next new computer will probably utilize Open Office.
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englebart wrote: I am holding at Office 2003 at home. My next new computer will probably utilize Open Office.
How about hosted applications like Zoho Writer (http://writer.zoho.com/[^]) and Google Docs (http://docs.google.com/[^])
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar
Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep!
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englebart wrote: 2. The old menu's make it easier to locate functions that you think should exist. Brand new users to Office may never figure out some of the more powerful features.
Actually, according to MS the whole ribbon thing was designed because people kept requesting features that already existed, but they just weren't getting deep enough in the menus to find them. They also admitted that new users actually have an easier time adjusting to the ribbon than office 2003 power users.
englebart wrote: ;
Oh, I guess there is no Undo/Redo feature in this application!</blockquote>
Undo and Redo are above the ribbon, next to the "office button", right next to save.
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Although I downloaded all versions of Windows 7 (and keys) from MSDN, so as to be ready for developing in that environment, I've yet to install it on a machine - and no one I know has installed it (small world of the second kind)
So - I picked ambivalent/No Opionion - when, in fact, the Don't Know/Haven't Tried It option should have been there, too.
C:\> :: - now that's an interface!
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"It's a sad state of affairs, indeed, when you start reading my tag lines for some sort of enlightenment. Sadder still, if that's where you need to find it." - Balboos HaGadol
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Well maybe not quite - but close!
It requires users to have to relearn and takes up real estate (not everone has 24" screens) - one user being forced on to Windows 7 and Office 2007 can't I have my old XP and office back - have work to do!
While on the subject of Windows 7, am I the only one who is getting complaints about Windows 7 as being worse than Vista/XP - or is this the 'Kings New cloths' syndrome
To quote users
Networking doesn’t work anymore
Where has everything moved to
Its slow (networking and copying)
and even one 'I prefer Vista.....' Really!
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not for me, I think its faster, more reliable and less a pain in the a** than Vista
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I think it is a big improvement, let the cry baby's go sit in a corner and sulk. So you have to learn some new tricks, once you have it's so much better than the old system. Compared to win 7 and Vista xp sucks eggs.
When prediction serves as polemic, it nearly always fails. Our prefrontal lobes can probe the future only when they aren’t leashed by dogma. The worst enemy of agile anticipation is our human propensity for comfy self-delusion. David Brin
Buddha Dave
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<let the="" cry="" baby's="" go="" sit="" in="" a="" corner="" and="" s="">
Yep guess you are the sort of engineer who loves the idea that car makers randomly decide which side of the wheel to place the indicator and wiper controls. To hell with the user, its different!
Engineering progress is not about change for changes sake, but whether it improves the user’s lot!
Have yet to find a user that thinks ribbons are good, although I guess there must be at least one out there - probably the same one that thought Vista was good..... 
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Windows, Icons, Menus and Pointers were considered useless too at one point...
--
Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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Yeah, I already had to google for one or two
The fact is that our financial department uses Excel a lot and what I find difficult is to keep up their rithm selecting options from the tool bar or using the key combinations.
This asures me that the office suite must be, if not the most, one of the most productive applications.
Everything looks way too thought and it takes years to take an application to this level.
For me as a basic office user I find difficult to find some more specific buttons but everything else is plain easy to use.
Cheers!
Alex
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Compared to a single line of buttons, each one selected by the user because it is needed, it is a complete waste of time.
I don't want to have to memorise how Microsoft or Steve Jobs like to group their functions; I want to have the functions I use most often instantly available to me -- and taking up as little workspace as possible.
If I want the print button next to the align-left button next to the insert-table button, then that's how I want it*. I don't want to have to search for everything according to someone else's logic, every time I want to use a tool, and I don't want tools that I don't need taking up comparatively vast amounts of my workspace.
* I don't want those buttons in that order, but if I did, I'd want to be able to put them there, and I wouldn't want them removed by the next update.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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The trouble is that a lot of support time was wasted in older Office versions because people had accidentally moved buttons around and lost them, or because one user had moved buttons around how they wanted them and another user then couldn't find the buttons they wanted.
Fine if you're the only user of the PC, but for most offices it's as daft as letting people rearrange the keys on their keyboard.
If they'd never put toolbar customisation in in the first place almost nobody would be asking for it now.
Regards
Nelviticus
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It takes almost zero time to learn how to customise a toolbar, and, once it has been customised, the toolbar requires zero maintenance, and zero "extra clicks" to reach the functions that are on the toolbar.
It takes time every day to use a ribbon that has been "customised" the way someone at Microsoft has decided it should be laid out, and, if anyone dares to make changes to the ribbon, it takes considerable time to put it back the way you want it after an update has reverted it to what the Microsoft employee likes.
How can moving from (almost zero + zero + zero) to (time lost by every employee every day + considerable time to put it back the way you want it) possibly be construed as constituting a productivity benefit?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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If you really want to use WallaceWord(TM) instead of Microsoft Word then you can very easily build yourself your own ribbon, which appears before all the Microsoft ones and won't get moved/removed with any updates, with the Custom UI Editor[^]. However a) most people never customised their toolbar anyway and b) for new users the ribbon - the layout of which was designed with a lot of thought and study, not just scribbled out on the back of a napkin - is a lot easier to use than the old toolbars/menus.
The point being that for some individuals (me included) who liked to fiddle and heavily customise their toolbars, the ribbon has been a restriction. But for the vast majority of users taking away (easy) customisation has been a significant improvement. I say this as someone who supports Office in a place with a lot of non-technical users - and as someone who, in Office XP, had changed every single button on the two main toolbars. My initial annoyance has faded now I've seen how much of an improvement it is for 99% of users.
Regards
Nelviticus
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Nelviticus wrote: you can very easily build yourself your own ribbon
I did. I built a ribbon that included only the tools (and styles) that I use when writing MSS, and incorporated it into a template that opens automatically for MSS docs.
I kept wondering why it kept disappearing, and why it kept detaching itself from MSS docs. Turns out it was updates kept ****ing it up.
I'm now happily back in Office 2003, where the template and toolbar work as well as they always worked -- i.e. every time, without any glitches, and taking up a lot less screen space than the ribbon.
Nelviticus wrote: as someone who, in Office XP, had changed every single button on the two main toolbars
Hmm. Bad idea. You should have created new toolbars, instead, then attached them to new templates so they could be used or ignored as required. It was quick, easy, and a lot less hassle. And it allowed you to create buttons for things that do not have buttons (e.g. styles), and make them persist. The ribbon has made all that a damned sight harder.
Before, you could have sent a one-pager to all "non-technical" users, showing them how to customise their "user experience", thereby improving their performance.
With the ribbon, you'll have to go to each of their machines to do it yourself -- and then teach them how to back up .dot files, so they can restore them when an update screws them up.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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But that's because toolbar customization, in many applications, was ALWAYS ON, meaning an accidental click or drag would (re)move a button.
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server
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I guess each environment has different problems. We've ca. 400 XP Professional boxes here and I've never heard a trouble call because of lost or missing buttons.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"It's a sad state of affairs, indeed, when you start reading my tag lines for some sort of enlightenment. Sadder still, if that's where you need to find it." - Balboos HaGadol
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Maybe a 'favourites' ribbon would help ?
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V. wrote: Maybe a 'favourites' ribbon would help ?
Yes! A sub-ribbon, underneath the main ribbon, where you can drag buttons that you use frequently!
Then you could hide the main ribbon itself, leaving just the single row of sub-ribbon buttons!
I'm all in favour! 
V. wrote: Stop smoking so you can: Enjoy longer the money you save.
I'm trying! I'm trying!
Stop bluddy reminding me about those wonderful tubes of smoldering vegetable matter!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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