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Hi there, fellas!
The question I am asking has perhaps been asked here, anyway, why are you C# programmers so often snobbish to us VB.NET programmers? I've encountered that so many times and it really seems a patterned behavior.
IMHO, that comes from the opinion that VB.NET is the descendant from VB6, which many of you don't regard as a "serious" programming language. I completed a bunch of business projects in VB6 which make use of COM, DCOM, TCP/IP, serial comms in the past, and I am sure that I made it way much faster than if somebody using C++.
Now I am programming for .NET in VB.NET, mainly business applications, both ASP.NET and Forms. In my projects I use n-tier paradigm, Remoting, Reflection, multi-threaded programming, dynamic code generation, etc. It takes much less time to use VB.NET than C#. Why the heck do I need to recompile my project every time I add a new method or property for it to show up in Intellisense?
Having both linguistic and technical education, I can say that it is really more clear to use AddHandler than to use "+=".
As a conclusion I want to say that VB.NET is at least as powerful as C# when it comes to business applications. Can you prove I am wrong?
Regards,
Serge (Logic Software)
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Because logical syntax rules () and {} and "END LOOP" is whack.
Just kidding but I love my C influenced syntax, and find other forms of syntax lacking or silly. And VB will never live down it's pre .Net bad image, like it or not.
Anybody that claims one language is better than another within .Net does not understand how .Net works or what it really is. All languages are equal, it's just syntaxical sugar on what language you choose.
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Rhelic wrote:
Anybody that claims one language is better than another within .Net does not understand how .Net works or what it really is
Well, different languages use different features of the CLR (for instance VB.NET does not support the concept of unsafe code) So your statement is wrong. One language is not equal to another language in .NET. Each language plays to its strengths and takes only those elements from the CLR.
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar
Coming soon: The Second EuroCPian Event
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I am not claiming that VB.NET is better than C#  What I really point out is that it is in no way worse when you're about business apps.
And I never understand why somebody would claim that somebody else does or doesn't understand how something works. Personally, I do understand how .NET works. And it IS really a matter of syntax, imho.
Regards,
Serge (Logic Software)
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Serge Lobko-Lobanovsky wrote:
I completed a bunch of business projects in VB6 which make use of COM, DCOM, TCP/IP, serial comms in the past, and I am sure that I made it way much faster than if somebody using C++.
Yes: a monothreaded, non-scalable solution, with poor exception support. Not because you are a bad programmer, but because VB sucks.
Serge Lobko-Lobanovsky wrote:
Why the heck do I need to recompile my project every time I add a new method or property for it to show up in Intellisense?
I really don't know, you probably messed up your development environment.
Serge Lobko-Lobanovsky wrote:
multi-threaded programming
I'm yet to see a pure VB programmer who clearly knows where to use and can differ a mutex, a semaphore or an event. Or who can spot a race condition or a deadlock.
A challenge: just as a test about the average VB multi-thread programming knowledge, I see you are an above average VB programmer.
The System.Threading.Thread class has two methods for waiting: Sleep and SpinWait. Why would one call SpinWait instead of Sleep for a pause on a thread?
I never saw a SpinWait call on a VB.NET program, can you say why?
The biggest troubles about VB are not about syntax, is about the ugly, poor, simplistic, type system.
Read my opinion on this article: GBVB - Converting VB.NET Code to C#[^]
Due to technical difficulties my previous signature, "I see dumb people" will be off until further notice. Too many people were thinking I was talking about them... 
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Daniel Turini wrote:
I'm yet to see a pure VB programmer who clearly knows where to use and can differ a mutex, a semaphore or an event. Or who can spot a race condition or a deadlock.
I dare ask why?  Why do you assume that a VB.NET programmer doesn't have C++, Asm and Win32 API history?
The System.Threading.Thread class has two methods for waiting: Sleep and SpinWait. Why would one call SpinWait instead of Sleep for a pause on a thread?
I never saw a SpinWait call on a VB.NET program, can you say why?
Nah, I don't know why If you can provide me an example, then please do it. I am eager to become the first one, hehe.
Regards,
Serge (Logic Software)
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Daniel Turini wrote:
I'm yet to see a pure VB programmer who clearly knows where to use and can differ a mutex, a semaphore or an event. Or who can spot a race condition or a deadlock.
Pure C# programmers aren't much better. In fact, the majority of code I see that uses the more advanced multithreaded techniques is flawed, sometimes in significant ways. 
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I've found an overwhelming need for new C# and VB developers to rush headlong to the System.Threading namespace just so they can feel cool by typing new Thread.
I've learned a great appreciation for the delegate.beginInvoke method since it covers 90% of the cases when I need to run on a different thread. And it is much easier to use since you can just pass parameters to a function.
If you don't kill me you will only make me stronger
That and a cup of coffee will get you 2 cups of coffee
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Serge Lobko-Lobanovsky wrote:
are you C# programmers so often snobbish to us VB.NET programmers?
I think probably because the majority of C# developers come from a C++ background where an extra element of thought has to go into developing software with it.
Serge Lobko-Lobanovsky wrote:
It takes much less time to use VB.NET than C#.
I don't believe that statement to be correct. I would suggest it takes YOU less time. I could say the exact opposite because of my experience because it would take ME less time to do the same project in C# than in VB.NET. In other words our past experiences have guided our judgement.
Serge Lobko-Lobanovsky wrote:
Why the heck do I need to recompile my project every time I add a new method or property for it to show up in Intellisense?
Do you? I've never noticed.
Serge Lobko-Lobanovsky wrote:
I can say that it is really more clear to use AddHandler than to use "+="
Again, personal opinion. I would say opposite.
Serge Lobko-Lobanovsky wrote:
Can you prove I am wrong?
I'm waiting for you to prove that you are right. All you've provided so far is opinion and anecdotal evidence. However, if you accept the proverb that the "Proof of the pudding is in the eating" then we are both right.
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar
Coming soon: The Second EuroCPian Event
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I like your reply, because you're not being affected by the provocative nature of my question 
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
All you've provided so far is opinion and anecdotal evidence.
Actually, I feel offended when somebody says "what is written in VB.NET sucks". Using this language or another is really a matter of personal taste. My opinion is that whichever language you're using doesn't matter as long as you keep learning and acquiring new experience.
When MS introduced .NET, they made us almost equal when it comes to the matter of which language to use.
Regards,
Serge (Logic Software)
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He never made such a comment, but was stating that which language you use a matter of preference. True, VB.NET and C# generate almost the same MSIL (C# does support more features of the CLI, however, and does optimize slightly better in some cases), but a developer as he said will most likely use whichever language he has more experience (with similar) languages.
Yes, I do believe that VB sucks (because I know how it works based on my decade of experience with OLE automation and COM) but I have not such opinion of VB.NET other than that I personally don't like the syntax. Coming from a long background with C/C++, Perl, and Java I like curly braces and semi-colons, but it's only my personal opinion, which is what the poster said is all you're offering and it's true. What you stated is your opinion and nothing more. And that's okay, just don't think it's a matter of fact.
Microsoft MVP, Visual C#
My Articles
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Heath Stewart wrote:
He never made such a comment, but was stating that which language you use a matter of preference.
Actually, I was not referring Colin when put this.
. What you stated is your opinion and nothing more.
Well, my opinion is based on personal experience in working with C# programmers. As you can see in my first post, I state that there is snobbery in C# programmers. I just simply don't understand why you (C# programmers) underestimate our (VB.NET) ability to create reliable and scalable software.
It proved to be a stereotype that VB.NET sucks because VB sucks. I want to break this vicious circle.
Regards,
Serge (Logic Software)
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Except in most cases VB.NET programmers are VB programmers, which typically don't understand one iota about true development since VB hides so much in the runtime implementation that things like good class design and performance are easily excused. VB was created to make programming easier for a target audience that probably should've stayed with their jobs at McD's (extreme case, but that's how I typically see so many people jumping into this field). You and others may be exceptions, but that's were the snobbery stems.
Microsoft MVP, Visual C#
My Articles
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Serge Lobko-Lobanovsky wrote:
I just simply don't understand why you (C# programmers) underestimate our (VB.NET) ability to create reliable and scalable software.
Ok, just compare at the posts on CodeProject's VB forum, on C# and on C++ and you'll understand why this happen.
It's useful to remember that the "B" on BASIC stands for "Beginners"; BASIC = Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code.
Due to technical difficulties my previous signature, "I see dumb people" will be off until further notice. Too many people were thinking I was talking about them...
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Daniel Turini wrote:
Ok, just compare at the posts on CodeProject's VB forum, on C# and on C++ and you'll understand why this happen.
That's what I had been doing when I got your reply. I found out that it would be much more useful for me to sit on these forums than of VB.NET ones. I do understand now your position in this argument.
It's useful to remember that the "B" on BASIC stands for "Beginners"; BASIC = Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code.
However, with dot NET we can use VB.NET as well
Regards,
Serge (Logic Software)
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What did you want to achieve with this posting?
This forum has the purpose to help developers when they face problems with programming in C#. I don't think we should begin to discuss such ideological themes.
As the others already said, it's very subjective which language is the better one or easier to use.
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Stefan Troschütz wrote:
What did you want to achieve with this posting?
This forum has the purpose to help developers when they face problems with programming in C#. I don't think we should begin to discuss such ideological themes.
This is the forum that C# programmers read. That is why it is here.
Regards,
Serge (Logic Software)
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But want did you want to achieve?
Do you want to hear that VB.NET is the greatest language ever. Why do you bother what others think about the language you use.
In my opinion everybody should use what he or she can handle best. I don't like some languages too or think it's hard to use them. But i don't care if anybody else use it and thinks it's really great.
It's pretty sad that some have a snobbish behaviour, as you described it so nice, or think that VB.Net sucks. But that's life. There will always be some unteachable people.
This is as sure as there will always be the quarrel which is the better operating system: Windows or Linux. But that's another story
So don't bother and lets not waste our time with this dumb and aimless discussion!
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Stefan Troschütz wrote:
Do you want to hear that VB.NET is the greatest language ever. Why do you bother what others think about the language you use.
No, to me it really doesn't matter what language people in my team is using as long as the code they create works as it is supposed to.
Actually, I don't bother what people say about VB.NET. I bother what they think of the products which are written in it.
So don't bother and lets not waste our time with this dumb and aimless discussion!
As long as there "unteachable" people, there will be place for a "teaching" discussion, you can be sure!
Regards,
Serge (Logic Software)
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Then good luck on your "teaching" mission.
I think you've found yourself a lifetime task
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How can I determinate CPU & memory usage in C# (not WMI)?
HELLO!
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Guys,
I'm creating a very simple program that will run everyday a little bit of logic
Select
filter
output to file depending on the current date and year
Question: I used "console application" as my output type in c# but when I run it, it popup a console window. What I need is when I run my program no window will popup on the screen. Purely exe file. Which type will I use in c#?
Please help ASAP
Dabuskol
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A Windows Forms application. Then in the Main method you remove the call to the Application.Run() method. Instead call your logic from the Main method.
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar
Coming soon: The Second EuroCPian Event
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Oops, I replied to the first instance of this question, but his problem is that he's not using a Windows Forms application, but a console application which will display a console window. This can be prevented in Windows NT (not in Windows) but the program that would run this "windowless console app" would display the console window. I just suggested writing a Windows Service.
Microsoft MVP, Visual C#
My Articles
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