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Re: .NET to replace MFC???? Christian Graus9-Oct-01 0:40 Christian Graus 9-Oct-01 0:40  The HTML tags for italics are <i> and </i>. Replace the i with a b to get bold text. And that's all the HTML I know Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery. Re: .NET to replace MFC???? Tomasz Sowinski9-Oct-01 1:01 Tomasz Sowinski 9-Oct-01 1:01  The thing you're describing wouldn't be MFC anymore. Does anyone actually create MDI apps anymore ?? Everybody does MDI. Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com Re: .NET to replace MFC???? Mike Burston9-Oct-01 1:31 Mike Burston 9-Oct-01 1:31  You're right - it won't be the same as good old MFC. And then we'd need a new name for this new thing. Something very current sounding like, say, ".NET" And that's why I think MFC is doomed to a long, slow ride into the sunset - it's already dated, and MS has no plans to even try to move it forward. It has no direct support for new C++ concepts/technologies like STL and templates, and little or no direct support for non-C++ things like XML and SOAP. If it doesn't at least try to move/change/evolve then it becomes obsolete, and MFC is well on the way to the destination. If you want any more proof that MFC is a fading star just look at CodeProject - it exists largely to allow people to extend (ie, overcome the limitations) of MFC in almost every area, and as a clearing house of knowledge of how to deal with MFC's problems. And some italic text. Hey , whadda know, it works - Thanks Christian ----------------- Reg : "Well, what Jesus blatantly fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem." Re: .NET to replace MFC???? Tomasz Sowinski9-Oct-01 1:40 Tomasz Sowinski 9-Oct-01 1:40  I think you're looking at MFC from the wrong angle. Why the hell should MFC know about SOAP or XML? Use it for what it was created: for encapsulating most often used Win32 stuff, like windowing. I'm using MFC only for rich user interfaces. Personally, I wouldn't be happy if MFC 8 suddenly supported SOAP or had its own XML parser. We don't live in the world in which there's only one all-encompassing library. Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com Re: .NET to replace MFC???? Mike Burston9-Oct-01 2:06 Mike Burston 9-Oct-01 2:06  Personally, I wouldn't be happy if MFC 8 suddenly supported SOAP or had its own XML parser. Well, I'd at least like MFC 8 to allow me to access the MSXML parser if it was installed (via IE5 and above), and to do it easily and quickly. A 'CXMLAchive' object, for example. We don't live in the world in which there's only one all-encompassing library I agree , a single all-encompassing library is impractical and undesireable. My point is simply that MFC is not changing, and the operating system, desktop, and 'outside world' are. Example 1 : I want to use MFC as the framework for an app. By default, MFC wants me to put my data in the CDocument, and I can get persistence of my document via the Serialize interface. But I want to store my data in an STL map, and write it to/from an XML file. MFC gives me no support at all for this. I have to write it all myself (or get it from CodeProject!), and I also have to 'decouple' various MFC structures (default message map handlers for 'File Open', etc) in order to insert my alternatives. Lots of extra work, plenty of scope for extra bugs. Suddenly MFC starts to look like not so much an App framework, but just a few common controls and GUI wrappers - most of which offer only basic features, and need to be extended to handle 'advanced' operations (which users now consider to be 'basic' functions). IMHO, MFC's serialization framework, the foundation of the whole CDocument persistence mechanism, is dated and inflexible, and requires far too much work to customize. It needs to keep up with changes in the way data lives in the real world, and it isn't doing that! Example 2 : I want to use GDI+ for my drawing code. But I can't pass any GDI+ objects to any MFC drawing functions directly, and vice versa. I have to keep track of which font handle is which, and which DC object I am using, and convert between the "wrapper" objects continously. Why can't I pass a GDI+ 'Font' object to the MFC CWnd function "SetFont" ?? MFC's drawing model is dated, and needs to be updated. I agree that MY wish list for MFC is extensive, and if everything I've mentioned was done then MFC would be not-MFC. But that doesn't mean the MFC should not be changing at all. Any product that wants to be "an application framework" must offer features that are needed by applications!! MFC is starting to fail this on a regular basis, unless the programmer spends the time and effort to 'patch in' the missing pieces. I use the Accusoft Image Library. It is a mature product - up to version 9 now (well, that's the latest I use, anyway). Each new version adds support for new image formats, and increases performance and flexibility. The product is mature, and growing. It remains 'current'. It added PDF support when PDF became popular, for example. That's what MFC should be doing, and it's not. Reg : "Well, what Jesus blatantly fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem." Re: .NET to replace MFC???? Tomasz Sowinski9-Oct-01 2:17 Tomasz Sowinski 9-Oct-01 2:17  Example 1: well, I have to admit that I'm using MFC as framework, but mostly for UI. My data structures (in CDocument-derived class) are STL-based, file formats are plain text or XML. I don't have much problems with this. However, I understand that it could be made easier. Example 2: can't comment on GDI+, have zero experience with this. Example with Accusoft - new image formats are the equivalent of new common controls supported by MFC, right? Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com Re: .NET to replace MFC???? Derek Lakin9-Oct-01 0:35 Derek Lakin 9-Oct-01 0:35  I have to admit I haven't seen MFC 7 yet, but from what I gather there aren't major leaps forward (please correct me if I'm wrong, I would like to know more). What I'd like to see is greater functionality out of the whole thing, especially from a GUI point of view. Just think of all the spare time we'd have if we didn't spend it extending the MFC library Derek Lakin. Salamander Software Ltd. Re: .NET to replace MFC???? Fazlul Kabir9-Oct-01 2:35 Fazlul Kabir 9-Oct-01 2:35  Just think of all the spare time we'd have if we didn't spend it extending the MFC library That is an excellent point. It proves that the term "maturity" often used in regards to MFC is rather relative. // Fazlul Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com Re: .NET to replace MFC???? Tomasz Sowinski9-Oct-01 2:48 Tomasz Sowinski 9-Oct-01 2:48  It proves that the term "maturity" often used in regards to MFC is rather relative. [edited message] I strongly disagree. I don't want fancy bitmapped buttons, grids, sliding windows, etc. in MFC. This is a general-purpose library and should not contain any widget that's fashionable this fall. Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com Re: .NET to replace MFC???? Fazlul Kabir9-Oct-01 3:13 Fazlul Kabir 9-Oct-01 3:13  I don't want fancy bitmapped buttons, grids, sliding windows, etc. in MFC. Hey, that's why I used the word *relative*. MFC's own history tells us that it has extended and improved its GUI components from version to version. Sure most of them are more of a *wrapper* around their Win32 counterparts, but consider other GUI controls that are *extended* beyond this wrapping business (such as CBitmapButton, CCheckListBox etc.). Adding more controls into the library only makes it rich and thus leaving us, the end users to spend more time to make it even richer. // Fazlul Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com Re: .NET to replace MFC???? Tomasz Sowinski9-Oct-01 3:25 Tomasz Sowinski 9-Oct-01 3:25  Adding more controls into the library only makes it rich and thus leaving us, the end users to spend more time to make it even richer. The problem is that rich library becomes bloated library. Take ISAPI helper classes for example. Sure, there are users who benefit from them, but I think they are not majority. Generally speaking, the life of library writers is not an easy one - they have to hit the bullseye and provide enough functionality within reasonably-sized package. Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com Re: .NET to replace MFC???? Fazlul Kabir9-Oct-01 3:34 Fazlul Kabir 9-Oct-01 3:34  The problem is that rich library becomes bloated library. Yep, that can be an issue while redistributing the runtimes. I guess the new approach MS has taken in MFC7 by integrating it more into ATL has the potential to take a lot of load outside the runtime and make it even lighter someday. // Fazlul Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com WM_COPYDATA 8-Oct-01 14:32 8-Oct-01 14:32  I have two apps that share CString information using WM_COPYDATA.. One of my apps when minimized is hidden and can only be found on the system tray.. The problem is when I try to send WM_COPYDATA to the hidden app it fails (I'm assuming its because when its hidden it doesn't have a "Window Name").. any ideas on how I can keep my app hidden yet still send the data? Thanks, Mike Re: WM_COPYDATA Michael Dunn8-Oct-01 16:14 Michael Dunn 8-Oct-01 16:14  The fact that the window is hidden doesn't make a difference. As long as the window exists, you can send messages to it. Are you getting an error back from WM_COPYDATA? Post some code. --Mike-- http://home.inreach.com/mdunn/ "The Earth is doomed." -- Rupert Giles your with and Re: WM_COPYDATA 8-Oct-01 17:08 8-Oct-01 17:08  You are right.. The problem isn't with the window being hidden.. I threw in some code to pop up a msg box if the console app couldn't find the app and it didn't pop the msg.. I guess the problem is.. I spawn multiple dialogs with the same name, and when I send a msg from the console to the open app's I was assuming that they would all see the msg.. I set up the apps to look for a specific variable being sent in the msg and if it matched a CString that was stored in the dialog it would take the command and do what ever.. Guess I'll have to figure out a differen approach. Any ideas? Mike Sleep( ) 8-Oct-01 13:31 8-Oct-01 13:31  Hi. Is there a Function like the Sleep() Fuction which do not stop the whole Application. I want only to Delay and not to Sleep.. so any ideas? Re: Sleep( ) Christian Graus8-Oct-01 13:40 Christian Graus 8-Oct-01 13:40  What do you want exactly ? If you want to delay part of the app, try putting it in a thread. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery. Re: Sleep( ) Tim Smith8-Oct-01 13:45 Tim Smith 8-Oct-01 13:45  Have you tried SetTimer? That would allow your application to continue while you waited for the timer to go off. The only requirement is that you have to have a message pump. Even if you don't have a window, you still have to pump the message queue to get SetTimer to work. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc. Re: Sleep( ) 8-Oct-01 14:01 8-Oct-01 14:01  the timer is a good idea! thanks! Re: Sleep( ) Erik G. Poel8-Oct-01 14:06 Erik G. Poel 8-Oct-01 14:06  Couldn't you just use a callback function and let the default message handling take care of everything? SetTimer(NULL,NULL,nMyMillis,TIMERPROC); Erik G. Poel Re: Sleep( ) Tim Smith8-Oct-01 15:06 Tim Smith 8-Oct-01 15:06  Yes, but the important point is that you still have to have some form of a message loop. Which for 99% of all applications is already there. Sometimes people try to use SetTimer with console applications where they don't have a message loop. If you aren't aware you have to do this, it is very frustrating trying to figure out why the timer doesn't go off. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc. Re: Sleep( ) ColinDavies8-Oct-01 17:49 ColinDavies 8-Oct-01 17:49  LOL Sometimes people try to use SetTimer with console applications where they don't have a message loop. I know the feeling Regardz Colin J Davies XP UI Registry settings Tim Smith8-Oct-01 12:26 Tim Smith 8-Oct-01 12:26  A while back I remember seeing an article or message about registry entries you can set to enable XP UI look in a 'normal' application. Anybody remember where that was? Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc. Re: XP UI Registry settings Tomasz Sowinski8-Oct-01 23:34 Tomasz Sowinski 8-Oct-01 23:34  AFAIR, this is accomplished with so called 'manifest file'. Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com Re: XP UI Registry settings Tim Smith9-Oct-01 2:01 Tim Smith 9-Oct-01 2:01  Ok, will look into that. Thanks. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.

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