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Ok, I have had my coffee, so you can all come out now!
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Wordle 1,069 4/6*
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Happiness will never come to those who fail to appreciate what they already have. -Anon
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. -Frederick Nietzsche
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Wordle 1,069 4/6
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I have just spent 5 hours on the cellphone/remote with a colleague trying to help out her friend who is in charge of their org's WordPress site. The last hour and a half were spent trying to find/fix an issue on my colleague's computer where the strangest thing happened whilst adding a new page/report.
When she tried to browse to any page for the site, html tags/code was displaying on the screen instead of being rendered. It also happened w/Edge. At the time, her friend was still able to access the same site, as was I. After her friend logged off and back on, she also started getting the same thing. Meanwhile, I'm still able to browse the site, login to wp, etc. but neither of them can. 
No matter what page she goes to, the same code is coming back which leads me to believe that a wp plugin or maybe even something upstream on the host is blocking the request and stupidly spitting out malformed html/headers. The intended page is some sort of self-submitting form with elemets using the name wsidchk that seems possibly to be related to cloudflare.
What I've tried:
0: Being as annoying as possible since I really didn't want to help in the first place, and I despise long phone calls.
1: Verifying that a cloudflare plugin is not active on their site.
2: Temporarily turning off the only security related plugin. (meant to prevent login abuse)
3: Deleting her browser cache and trying Edge. Edge also displayed the html code.
4: Tried on my 2 systems with multiple browsers. It works on my machines!  Not just the site, but the things that they needed help before they were unable to access the site. Everything works as it should, I've done what you needed me to do. Is it really now my problem that you are having problems accessing your website?
The real problem is that my colleague's friend has contracted with a 'webmaster' who seems to be inept when it comes to anything dynamic such as a report involving php script and mysql.
At any rate, I have been provided with credentials to manage their WP, and as of now, I'm the only one who can actually access the site.  I've got a good mind to start billing by the hour! My day is shot! 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
"Hope is contagious"
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kmoorevs wrote: I have been provided with credentials to manage their WP,
Congratulations on becoming sorry, you're now their web site admin.
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Did I mention that I despise WP/PHP/MySQL? They couldn't pay me enough!...well everything's negotiable but I would have to insist on a proper web application, not wordpress.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
"Hope is contagious"
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kmoorevs wrote: When she tried to browse to any page for the site, html tags/code was displaying on the screen instead of being rendered. It also happened w/Edge.
It's not strange at all. The web server was configured incorrectly and was most likely serving the document as plain text. They got the wrong mime type.
kmoorevs wrote: After her friend logged off and back on, she also started getting the same thing. Meanwhile, I'm still able to browse the site, login to wp, etc. but neither of them can
Could be a number of reasons. The most common one is you still had a cached copy of the site or vice versa. Could also be more than one server in a farm responding to the request depending on location where only one server out of N is configured incorrectly, etc.
kmoorevs wrote: 0: Being as annoying as possible since I really didn't want to help in the first place, and I despise long phone calls.
There's this magical phrase called "No thanks". Try it. Unless you're romantically interested in this chick, there's no need to bend over backwards.
kmoorevs wrote: 1: Verifying that a cloudflare plugin is not active on their site.
This may explain a lot. Cloudflare does MIME types and also caches. Maybe someone who didn't know what they were doing "set it up".
kmoorevs wrote: 3: Deleting her browser cache and trying Edge. Edge also displayed the html code.
So it sounds like the working version is the cached version.
kmoorevs wrote: The real problem is that my colleague's friend has contracted with a 'webmaster' who seems to be inept when it comes to anything dynamic such as a report involving php script and mysql.
Yeah but that's not your problem. It's not being mean to value your time. If they want your assistance they can pay for it; otherwise, they should not be in business.
kmoorevs wrote: At any rate, I have been provided with credentials to manage their WP, and as of now, I'm the only one who can actually access the site
You mean access the backend or public site? I'm willing to bet you're not the only one that can access the public site.
kmoorevs wrote: I've got a good mind to start billing by the hour! My day is shot!
Imagine going to a doctor or lawyer and expecting them to work for free because someone knows someone. Why is it devs are the only ones with not enough backbone to say "nope, not for free"?
Jeremy Falcon
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"Imagine going to a doctor or lawyer and expecting them to work for free because someone knows someone. Why is it devs are the only ones with not enough backbone to say "nope, not for free"?
because most of us start as salary. And devs tend to be terrible at business. Hint for anyone who is contemplating going into business, learn how to ask for money. The tech stuff is easy 
I recommend watching as many of these videos as possible: Toodaloo! - YouTube[^]
It's been eye opening to me.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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charlieg wrote: I recommend watching as many of these videos as possible: Toodaloo! - YouTube[^]
Ahhh, that's it - thanks a million. I bumped into a few of them the other week and laughed my backside off. Then I couldn't remember what the channel was called and since I'd been watching in incognito mode, had no history.
Soon as I saw the University of North Texas mug, I knew they'd be a hoot.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: You mean access the backend or public site? I'm willing to bet you're not the only one that can access the public site.
a: I've got access to cPanel, WP, and a login for the site. I didn't want it, but I've got it.
b: That was one of the most frustrating things. There was nothing wrong with the site, they were just being blocked. It's like helping your neighbor change a tire and afterwards the car won't start...it must be something you did right? It was working fine until you messed with it...makes me want to put the flat back on.
Anyway, within a few hours the mystery error went away...and I've just seen an email from the site owner with a new list of problems. 
I'm still confused about the whole thing though and I hate not understanding what caused it. Here is the exact code that showed up in their browsers. There's really not too much here to search on, but maybe you can understand/decipher that east/west stuff.
<!doctype html>
<html>
<head>
<meta charset="utf-8″>
<meta name="robots" content="noindex, nofollow">
<title>One moment, please…</title>
<style>
body {
background: #F6F7F8;
color: #303131;
font-family: sans-serif;
margin-top: 45vh;
text-align: center;
}
</style>
</head>
<body>
<h1>Please wait while your request is being verified…</h1>
<form id="wsidchk-form" style="display:none;" action="/z0f76a1d14fd21a8fb5fd0d03e0fdc3d3cedae52f" method="get">
<input type="hidden" id="wsidchk" name="wsidchk"/>
</form>
<script>
(function(){
var west=+((+!+[]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![])+(+!+[]+!![]+[])+(+![])+(+!+[]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![]+[])+(+![])+(+!+[]+[])+(+!+[]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![])),
east=+((+!+[])+(+!+[]+!![]+[])+(+![])+(+!+[]+!![]+!![]+[])+(+!+[]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![])+(+!+[]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![]+[])+(+!+[]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![])+(+!+[]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![]+!![]+[])),
x=function(){try{return !!window.addEventListener;}catch(e){return !!0;} },
y=function(y,z){x() ? document.addEventListener("DOMContentLoaded",y,z) : document.attachEvent("onreadystatechange",y);};
y(function(){
document.getElementById(‘wsidchk’).value = west + east;
document.getElementById(‘wsidchk-form’).submit();
}, false);
})();
</script>
</body>
</html>
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
"Hope is contagious"
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kmoorevs wrote: Anyway, within a few hours the mystery error went away...and I've just seen an email from the site owner with a new list of problems. 
Give him a bill rate man. As long as you work for free, those requests will never stop.
kmoorevs wrote: There's really not too much here to search on, but maybe you can understand/decipher that east/west stuff.
The dev that wrote this is a rookie. He/she obfuscated poorly and in doing so made the script larger. Guessing they tried to hide an account ID that never should've been on the client to begin with. Who knows.
Here's the unobfuscated version with the IIFE removed for clarity and cleaned up. There's no east variable.
var west = 12038859;
var x = function(callback) {
if (window.addEventListener)
document.addEventListener("DOMContentLoaded", callback, false);
else
document.attachEvent("onreadystatechange", callback);
};
x(function() {
document.getElementById('wsidchk').value = west + east;
document.getElementById('wsidchk-form').submit();
});
Jeremy Falcon
modified 23-May-24 17:24pm.
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I'll admit I have a lot of reading to catch up with to reach the level of understanding about networks that I'd like to have. Well, specifically, subnetting.
After some going back and forth with ChatGPT for about half an hour (trying to get it to rephrase its answers to try to show it that previous answers were clearly wrong), I've only managed to become less certain about many things, but I'm hoping I've at least come to one correct conclusion:
I want the valid IP range on my home network to be restricted to 192.168.X.Y, where X ranges from 1 through 31, and Y ranges from 1 through 254 (with the understanding that, for all intents and purposes, you never directly assign [whatever].0 or [whatever].255 to a device).
So, the subnet I should be using is 255.255.224.0 (so for the third octet I could use everything between 1 through 31).
What I haven't been able to get out of ChatGPT is whether a machine configured with an IP between 192.168.32.1 and 192.168.255.254 would fail to reach the rest of the systems on 192.168.[1-31].[1-254]. It sounds right to me, but until I try, I'm just guessing.
Generally, I configure all of my systems with a static IPv4 address. And I want all systems within my network to be able to see each other, just to keep things simple.
Am I right at least so far, with that subnet of 255.255.224.0?
Further discussion:
The idea is - for the third octet - the 255 devices under "1" would be my physical machines. My laptops would be under "2". Printers under "3". My first VM host would be at 10 (192.168.10.1). VMs it hosts would be 192.168.10.2 through .254. My second VM host would be 192.168.11.1; its VMs would range from 192.168.11.2 through 254, etc.
Of course that leaves some big gaps within each range, but it does keep things organized (at least in my mind it does). I'm no network admin; do people segregate things this way?
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dandy72 wrote: do people segregate things this way?
No, it is overkill. If the number of hosts is under 255, and I suspect for a home network this is the case, You can just use a traditional netmask like 255.255.255.0. If you want to "organize" hosts you can still do something like 1 to 30 computers; 40 to 100 VMs; printers, something else.
If you set a netmask like you want 255.255.224.0, that is also, ok but it's not going to exclude the hosts with 0 and 255. So a host like 192.168.2.0 is perfectly acceptable Only the end for the range is going to be treated differently: the 192.168.31.255 is going to be the broadcast address for your network.
Sub-netting is usually done for the exact opposite of your reason: when you want hosts not to be visible outside their own sub-nets.
More thoughts:
- set up a DHCP server for random things that land on your network (phones, friends, etc.). Give it a range distinct from your fixed hosts.
- set up a DNS server and give meaningful names to your devices instead of relying on IP addresses.
I'm using a RPi for both the DNS and DHCP server. It is more than enough for my needs.
Mircea
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Some good thoughts in there, thanks for that.
I probably do have less than 255 devices (VMs included), but if I want set ranges within a total max of 255 entries, it won't be long before I run out of space and just go back to having to find a gap somewhere, and it'll be ad-hoc again.
I didn't bring DHCP into the discussion just to keep it simple. I do want to let my router assign (say) .1 through .25 for random devices that show up, but stick with static IPs for everything else that should "always be present".
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Start thinking about subnet as a single number, such as 24 for 255.255.255.0. This makes your life easier, when working with subnets, not equal to 24 and 16.
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TL;DR; you are correct and devices with an IP of 192.168.32.0 (and up) would not be on the same subnet as a device with an IP of 192.168.11.1 ... so should not be able to communicate directly... and the TCP/IP stack(s) would/should try and "route" the packets via something that knows about "routing" (or in this case not at all because such subnet addresses are internal/private/non-routable)
Oh boy, I hope I've got all these details correct 
I don't think of a subnet as a number... I always think of a subnet in terms of the binary mask... network mask
... 255.255.224.0 ... is ... 11111111.11111111.11100000.00000000
The 'network' of a device can be found by ANDing the device IP with that network mask (gives the subnet address). If I do the same with another device IP and I find that the resulting values (i.e. subnet addresses) are the same, then the 2 devices are on the same 'network/subnet' and can (copper and switches willing) communicate directly
If the value I get after applying the mask is different then the devices are on different subnets and the TCP/IP stack will/should send it to something that can "route" between these subnets.
So...
192.168.0.1 masked (ANDed) with the 255.255.224.0 pattern will be 192.168.0.0, or 11000000.10101000.00000000.00000000
192.168.31.1 masked with that pattern will be 192.168.0.0 ... same subnet is local so can communicate directly (and at which point ARP kicks in)
192.168.32.1 masked with that pattern will be 192.168.32.0 ... 11000000.10101000.00100000.00000000 (see the new 1 in the third octet which corresponds with a 1 in both the mask and the IP address) ... subnet values are different so different network/subnet, needs to be routed
Of course, if the a router is set up in an interesting way, and knows how to route for both the 192.168.0.0/19 subnet AND the 192.168.32.0/19 network on the same piece of copper, then it might/should work (DHCP et.all. complexity though)
And if a mask is set incorrectly somewhere (e.g. 255.255.0.0) that it'll maybe work one way and not the other
And it all depends on the TCP/IP stack. I don't know whether ARP understands netmasks so whether a device on a different subnet is plugged into the same network cabling could obtain the hardware network address regardless of subnet... so this is more about routing than security.
The good thing about doing it the way you want to is it makes you think about details, and not just plug simple numbers in like 255.255.255.0 ... all good fun
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There is another range of IP addresses 10.*.*.* for larger internal subnets. I would use that instead of 255.*.*.*
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Not dissing Chris, but the stupidity of Microsoft never ceases to enrage and mystify me. Most companies are started from enraged employees/customers that know they can do it better, and they do... anyway...
So, let's talk Windows 11 and the bs that MS blows our way for UI improvements. Rounded icons, ads in the startup bar, ever invasive AI, yada yada. Well I work on a laptop 99% of the time. I'm not that mobile, I just like the size. I have Windows 10 and 11 on multiple machines. Today all I wanted to do on my Windows 11 laptop was to turn off the touchpad when a mouse was connected. It's a fairly common thing users want to do.
So, where do I find it? The setting is hidden under a drop down bar where you just have to be intuitive/desperate enough to keep clicking. Help is useless, and most of the doc on Windows 11 trails the ui... what a steaming pile of debris.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Windows 11 needs a massive, massive cleanout. The full Marie Kondo treatment.
The update UI that wraps the older UI that wraps the win 10 UI which wraps the Win7 UI which wraps the Win95 has, I feel, reached the tipping point of collapse. Just right click on the desktop and then select "Show more options" as Exhibit A that the UX Product Manager just gave up. Removing quick tasks from the contect menu of taskbar icons was their way of saying "I hate the World".
cheers
Chris Maunder
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What I find amusing is when I use programs that draws client window frames using the Win7 UI style. I would prefer they go back to the XP or W7 UI style because I detest the phone-style UI they use currently.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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charlieg wrote: ads in the startup bar
The worse the economy gets the more prevalent this will become. The big wigs know something the average person refuses to believe as they get brainwashed by TV.
But, you know... happy hump day. 
Jeremy Falcon
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"happy hump day"
that used to mean some nsfw different to me, but then I got older.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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 If memory serves "Hump Day" was Wednesday many moons ago.
But I agree: "The worse the economy gets the more prevalent this will become."
When technology doesn't get it right, cutting corners is one of the causes.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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I agree with you but this also has a lot to do with the deteriorating quality of young professionals who work at the big vendors.
Many documents have been written in the past few years reporting on how younger people are coming out of university with an overblown sense of entitlement while really having nothing to do offer in terms of critical thinking skills and technical intelligence.
Many professionals are seeing this with the increasing mess in web development products that has been made possible by the radical decoupling of components from more centralized processes (ie: ASP.NET WebForms), which may not have been the most efficient but were easier to learn, easier to compartmentalize, and made for better project estimates.
Now what do we have? A entire sundry of tools, tool-sets, and frameworks that increasingly rely on more arcane and ambiguous syntax that together is enough to drive one to drink.
This is why the PHP language is still holding its own in the web arena...
We also have the deteriorating quality of decision making at Microsoft, which I knew would happen under Nadella's leadership.
I have worked with quite a few Indian managers during my career, and though technically capable they are arrogant, and have little capability in big-picture strategies, relying on a just a "get it done" attitude while attempting to cut costs at the same time. This is also why you rarely see top quality and innovative software products coming out of India.
The time is coming where if Microsoft keeps on turning everything into varying levels of rocket science for its products, which is hardly required for what a lot of us need to do, another company will eventually move into Microsoft's declining space.
For example, does anyone really need to use SQL Server any longer when we have the MySQL and PostgreSQL database engines, both of which have large support communities as well as direct technical support.
Without Windows, Microsoft would be nowhere, and with the sagging influence of cloud computing, Nadella's original goals are starting to get a black eye from which he may never recover.
Still, I prefer using Windows to Linux. But if necessary, will make the switch when the time comes...
Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer
Black Falcon Software, Inc.
blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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Steve Naidamast wrote: I agree with you but this also has a lot to do with the deteriorating quality of young professionals who work at the big vendors.
Oh, totally agree with you there. Big or small vendor. There are a lot of young ids out there who took an online course for six weeks and think they're engineers or managers now. It's market over saturation because too many people are in it for money now. IMO no course student or even someone fresh out of college deserves a 6-figure salary. Earn it. Learn the ropes first. The cruft needs to be weeded out.
Steve Naidamast wrote: Many documents have been written in the past few years reporting on how younger people are coming out of university with an overblown sense of entitlement while really having nothing to do offer in terms of critical thinking skills and technical intelligence.
IMO this is a direct result of the lies and brainwashing going on at universities. They're a cult now. They don't teach. They indoctrinate.
Steve Naidamast wrote: Many professionals are seeing this with the increasing mess in web development products that has been made possible by the radical decoupling of components from more centralized processes (ie: ASP.NET WebForms), which may not have been the most efficient but were easier to learn, easier to compartmentalize, and made for better project estimates.
Well, with me being a web purist, I never liked Angular for instance. Which took the "all encompassing" approach too. It was always slow and bloated and learning it didn't help you really learn web dev. But, as you eluded to, the opposite is also true. JavaScript has this thing called "javascript fatigue" because if you sneeze there's a package for that. You sneeze again... there's a second package. If a rookie dev who has no idea what they're doing gets on a project, it can be just as bloated if not worse. So yeah, damned if you do. Damned if you don't. 
Steve Naidamast wrote: We also have the deteriorating quality of decision making at Microsoft, which I knew would happen under Nadella's leadership.
I don't know if it's just MS though.
I'm not gonna mention the name because I think of some of the peeps there like brothers, but I just finished a contract for a company with annual revenue of over 3.5 billion. Not Microsoft size, but a large enough sample size of employees to get an idea from. And let's just say, the vast, vast majority of people there or "experts" from vendors I talked to while there couldn't find their way out of a cereal box. I don't know man. Just seems like the world is too afraid to think.
Steve Naidamast wrote: I have worked with quite a few Indian managers during my career, and though technically capable they are arrogant, and have little capability in big-picture strategies, relying on a just a "get it done" attitude while attempting to cut costs at the same time. This is also why you rarely see top quality and innovative software products coming out of India.
I will say, I've also worked with one particular Indian-American manager before who was downright abusive. So, I feel your pain. Just for balance though, I've had some Indian-American coworkers who were awesome people. You win some. You lose some. But, I totally get your point. I've worked with folks offshore in India and it was always either just blindly say yes to everything or just never talk to you at all and make whatever - even if it's wrong. Typically I blame management for that though - typically. And Lord knows, I've seen devs over here display the same traits.
Steve Naidamast wrote: The time is coming where if Microsoft keeps on turning everything into varying levels of rocket science for its products, which is hardly required for what a lot of us need to do, another company will eventually move into Microsoft's declining space.
IMO if MS would've just focused on Windows and Office they'd be unstoppable. They've spread themselves way too thin and now even Windows is suffering.
Steve Naidamast wrote: Still, I prefer using Windows to Linux. But if necessary, will make the switch when the time comes...
You should definately try it man. With all the spying going on in Windows and Macs now, Linux just may be the last hope as far as privacy is concerned. Best starter distros are Ubuntu and Linux Mint. Mint will feel at lot like Windows and Ubuntu will have more bells and whistles. Both are good starting distros.
Jeremy Falcon
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