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trønderen wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if AI could easily outperform most human performers.
I would.
Fixed rule set and massive computers to learn chess.
I don't expect to see it bouncing around Fortnite winning matches. For one thing I doubt enough consumable video exists to learn the game. Self driving cars are becoming less self driving lately even spending massive time on the actual road, so not sure how it is going ramp up.
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So do you think AI could outperform humans in creative activity, such as music, literature and visual arts, but not in gaming?
Or do you think that gaming is a more challenging task for AI to master than creative arts?
Now that you mention chess: Stockfish has been around a lot longer than AI.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
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trønderen wrote: Or do you think that gaming is a more challenging task for AI to master than creative arts?
Yes. It isn't a static product. It has to respond to the existing changing conditions. Which is exactly how self driving cars are supposed to work but do not.
trønderen wrote: Stockfish has been around a lot longer than AI.
Stockfish - invented in 2004.
Lisp - created in 1960. "It quickly became a favored programming language for artificial intelligence (AI) research"
Lisp (programming language) - Wikipedia[^]
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jschell wrote: For one thing I doubt enough consumable video exists to learn the game.
You underestimate the size that E-sports has grown to. Not only that, but most games have streamers going constantly that the AI could learn from. Not to mention that every gamer puts out a game guide on YouTube. Also, the game could play 24/7 and learn from in game play. I think the resources are out there, just a matter of it being able to comprehend the amount of data being thrown at it. Trying to process 30 frames per second would be a challenge. Also, games have progressed to the point where even the sounds give you an edge so acoustic spatial cognition would have to be taken into account, although maybe you could get by with just the visuals.
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Content exists. I doubt the form is consumable in a consistent manner.
You are correct that a way would need to be found for it to consume the content.
When an AI scans texts is puts a pattern to the words that it finds. How does if find the pattern that ties the game controls to the video? How does it work with keyboard controls that are not even seen in the video? What about social interactions where two players just stop somewhere to have a chat?
milo-xml wrote: Not only that, but most games have streamers going constantly that the AI could learn from. Not to mention that every gamer puts out a game guide on YouTube.
You mention that as though they are the same thing. Not to mention that you presume each source, even if similar is the same thing.
Have you watched a game play video where the gamer cut out a piece to skip over parts?
What about game play with commentary where the gamer explains why they are playing in a certain way? For example what about a player that is trying to see how fast they can get killed? Or how many times they can die?
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I haven't been into AI as much as I should be I guess. Can it process audio/subtitles? The AI I know of learns by playing and having the rules programmed in. Like AlphaGo. I also thought the success any AI is what is fed into it. Garbage in/garbage out kind of thing.
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Far as I know AI relies on volume. So the entire library of New York Times articles.
No real people vetted the content first.
And text is text. Very consumable as just that.
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Depends on what it's going to be used for.
Some games have countless NPCs you can encounter. Some game designers spend an inordinate amount of time coding in short, random conversations. I could certainly see those inconsequential conversations being moved to AI. It could add quite a bit of realism.
Would there be any payoff other than it being a neat thing? Probably not.
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dandy72 wrote: Would there be any payoff other than it being a neat thing? Probably not.
Would painter, authors and composers react similarly? "It is just a neat thing".
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
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I don't care if I'm getting fragged by some 8 year old korean kid with too much time on his hands, or teabagged by AI, it still makes not want to play when someone much higher level than me camps on my spawn points just to be a jerk.
Besides, I got sick of FPS games once Quake was released. I made a temporary exception for Overwatch.
I think AI potential in gaming has more to do with livening up NPC dialogue and maybe eventually, AI gamemastering.
I think people will try to use AI to farm for XP and stuff on games, and the game servers will probably try unsuccessfully to shut them out.
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honey the codewitch wrote: I think people will try to use AI to farm for XP and stuff on games,
You don't need AI for that... game cheats have been there since the beginning.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
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Not online they haven't. In fact, online they work to actively eliminate them.
Furthermore, people right now, today, collect money from gamers in order to farm XP on games. It's a business.
Why? Because there's not a cheat code for it.
So again, people will try to use AI to farm XP for games.
Cheat codes don't enter into this at all.
Check out my IoT graphics library here:
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I remember playing lineage around 10 or 12 years ago and there were people cheating that went offline but the char remained active and farmed everything in its "target" range and picking the drops of the floor.
There are automatic aim cheats that bring you the mouse cursor to a "Headshot" position in several FPS and a bunch more.
I have stopped playing sufficient games due to cheaters to know that AI is not needed to cheat in online games, there are already enough creative people out there.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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You should try Zombies on Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3. For the most part, good community of players who help each other out and I really like the co-op play with friends.
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I got tired of FPS games once Quake came out.
There is only so much variety in running around and shooting people. 
I appreciate the suggestion though.
Check out my IoT graphics library here:
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>AI entering the gaming scene
In some genres we have AI that matches human players since the beginning. We’ve had bots for multiplayer maps since Quake2 and Unreal Tournament.
It’s difficult to imagine a RPG bot.
In RTS games we have AI players on multiplayer maps but they are way far behind from what usually human players do.
In a FPS game you have a legit bot if the AI character is able to move all over the entire level, pick power ups and shoot at the enemy. On a FPS map most of the time the bot doesn’t care what the human player is doing. When the bot meets an opponent the behavior of the bot is affected by two or three factors: the enemy position, enemy move direction and direction in which the human player is shooting. When the encounter takes place it is easy to read and “interpret” the meaning of human player’s (HP) actions:
shoot rockets ahead of HP when he moves, strafe when HP shoots etc.
In a RTS the AI player should be able to read and interpret the actions of the opponent and that hasn’t been done yet. The only thing AI can do these days is respond when a friendly unit or building is under fire by attacking the attacker. In an ideal situation the AI player should read the direction of movement of the enemy units and send in help before the attack has begun( if the units/buildings in danger are worth defending).
The code of a RTS game is already a complicated tech tree better AI means that you need to build on top of it even higher.
modified 9-Mar-24 13:57pm.
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It’s difficult to imagine a RPG bot.
during my time, there was an MMORPG called Ragnarok Online and I remember there was an bot that can be scripted to follow specific route to do item/exp farming, go back to the town when the inventory is full, and also can be programmed to avoid other player. Maybe with AI, the bot can be told just to perform similar thing by just using prompt? Or at least it can be made to perform like human?
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Mentoring.
This is far beyond current AI capabilities, but imagine that a game AI could actively monitor your decisions and actions in a game and adjust the difficulty of the game to match you current state of mastery of the game. It could introduce suggestions to improve your abilities and give you objectives that you then could try to complete. This is the current problem with games. Make it too difficult and you frustrate the player and they stop playing. Make it too easy and its boring. Every person is different and it is currently impossible to make a game that caters to all skill levels.
Lets take for example Chess. A relatively easy game to learn but a difficult game to master. The current state of computer chess programs can easily beat a beginning player. Play a dozen games and you will get frustrated and stop playing. But have a mentor that adjusts it's level of playing to your current level and you have a game that you might just win. The program can then analyze your style of play and show you how other historical players used various strategies to counter and defeat an opponent. It can then play a game and present the player with opportunities to employ these strategies in their own playing. This then reinforces the players comprehension of the game and the types of strategies that can be used to counter other players. This would be more engaging and potentially satisfying to the player.
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I think you're on to something. I can see a huge market of people willing to pay to have an AI provide real-time training on how to play better at games like World of Tanks.
I'm so bad at World of Tanks that I would pay for some AI training on the matter.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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I'd put that right up there with NFT's, a curiosity worth only the time you spend reading out the words.
Kasparov getting beaten long before there was GPT 4 was fun to read about. Today they use some form of A.I. to figure out the possible limits of Tetris for the NES (as tools go, that's interesting).
But watching an A.I. play? Man that A.I. better be caked.
(I can't even watch another person play a videogame, in the same room, for more than 25 minutes before I fall asleep or get nauseous)
So with all due respects to e-sports, I think touching grass is more productive (and healthier)
For most people like me, videogames have always been just electronic toys and entertaining an individual for a couple hours should be their greatest and only objective.
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I have the cat for it.
She's constantly perched on my shoulders like she thinks she's a little mini me or something.
I feel a bit like Jabba the Hut.
Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
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"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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Next time you get a parrot and you will be a pirate... Arrr
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Given my long, long experience as a feline client, I think the following is far more likely.
You are the chosen henchperson, and your cat is the supervillain.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Okay, true. She even has a supervillain alter ego and everything. "The Nibbler"
Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
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