The Weird and The Wonderful

The Weird and The Wonderful forum is a place to post Coding Horrors, Worst Practices, and the occasional flash of brilliance.

We all come across code that simply boggles the mind. Lazy kludges, embarrassing mistakes, horrid workarounds and developers just not quite getting it. And then somedays we come across - or write - the truly sublime.

Post your Best, your worst, and your most interesting. But please - no programming questions . This forum is purely for amusement and discussions on code snippets. All actual programming questions will be removed.

Standards? Eat your heart out, Randall

Peter_in_278025-Feb-24 15:07

Peter_in_2780

25-Feb-24 15:07

Inspired by xkcd: Standards[^] ...
iconv --list produces this:

The following list contains all the coded character sets known.  This does
not necessarily mean that all combinations of these names can be used for
the FROM and TO command line parameters.  One coded character set can be
listed with several different names (aliases).

  437, 500, 500V1, 850, 851, 852, 855, 856, 857, 858, 860, 861, 862, 863, 864,
  865, 866, 866NAV, 869, 874, 904, 1026, 1046, 1047, 8859_1, 8859_2, 8859_3,
  8859_4, 8859_5, 8859_6, 8859_7, 8859_8, 8859_9, 10646-1:1993,
  10646-1:1993/UCS4, ANSI_X3.4-1968, ANSI_X3.4-1986, ANSI_X3.4,
  ANSI_X3.110-1983, ANSI_X3.110, ARABIC, ARABIC7, ARMSCII-8, ARMSCII8, ASCII,
  ASMO-708, ASMO_449, BALTIC, BIG-5, BIG-FIVE, BIG5-HKSCS, BIG5, BIG5HKSCS,
  BIGFIVE, BRF, BS_4730, CA, CN-BIG5, CN-GB, CN, CP-AR, CP-GR, CP-HU, CP037,
  CP038, CP273, CP274, CP275, CP278, CP280, CP281, CP282, CP284, CP285, CP290,
  CP297, CP367, CP420, CP423, CP424, CP437, CP500, CP737, CP770, CP771, CP772,
  CP773, CP774, CP775, CP803, CP813, CP819, CP850, CP851, CP852, CP855, CP856,
  CP857, CP858, CP860, CP861, CP862, CP863, CP864, CP865, CP866, CP866NAV,
  CP868, CP869, CP870, CP871, CP874, CP875, CP880, CP891, CP901, CP902, CP903,
  CP904, CP905, CP912, CP915, CP916, CP918, CP920, CP921, CP922, CP930, CP932,
  CP933, CP935, CP936, CP937, CP939, CP949, CP950, CP1004, CP1008, CP1025,
  CP1026, CP1046, CP1047, CP1070, CP1079, CP1081, CP1084, CP1089, CP1097,
  CP1112, CP1122, CP1123, CP1124, CP1125, CP1129, CP1130, CP1132, CP1133,
  CP1137, CP1140, CP1141, CP1142, CP1143, CP1144, CP1145, CP1146, CP1147,
  CP1148, CP1149, CP1153, CP1154, CP1155, CP1156, CP1157, CP1158, CP1160,
  CP1161, CP1162, CP1163, CP1164, CP1166, CP1167, CP1250, CP1251, CP1252,
  CP1253, CP1254, CP1255, CP1256, CP1257, CP1258, CP1282, CP1361, CP1364,
  CP1371, CP1388, CP1390, CP1399, CP4517, CP4899, CP4909, CP4971, CP5347,
  CP9030, CP9066, CP9448, CP10007, CP12712, CP16804, CPIBM861, CSA7-1, CSA7-2,
  CSASCII, CSA_T500-1983, CSA_T500, CSA_Z243.4-1985-1, CSA_Z243.4-1985-2,
  CSA_Z243.419851, CSA_Z243.419852, CSDECMCS, CSEBCDICATDE, CSEBCDICATDEA,
  CSEBCDICCAFR, CSEBCDICDKNO, CSEBCDICDKNOA, CSEBCDICES, CSEBCDICESA,
  CSEBCDICESS, CSEBCDICFISE, CSEBCDICFISEA, CSEBCDICFR, CSEBCDICIT, CSEBCDICPT,
  CSEBCDICUK, CSEBCDICUS, CSEUCKR, CSEUCPKDFMTJAPANESE, CSGB2312, CSHPROMAN8,
  CSIBM037, CSIBM038, CSIBM273, CSIBM274, CSIBM275, CSIBM277, CSIBM278,
  CSIBM280, CSIBM281, CSIBM284, CSIBM285, CSIBM290, CSIBM297, CSIBM420,
  CSIBM423, CSIBM424, CSIBM500, CSIBM803, CSIBM851, CSIBM855, CSIBM856,
  CSIBM857, CSIBM860, CSIBM863, CSIBM864, CSIBM865, CSIBM866, CSIBM868,
  CSIBM869, CSIBM870, CSIBM871, CSIBM880, CSIBM891, CSIBM901, CSIBM902,
  CSIBM903, CSIBM904, CSIBM905, CSIBM918, CSIBM921, CSIBM922, CSIBM930,
  CSIBM932, CSIBM933, CSIBM935, CSIBM937, CSIBM939, CSIBM943, CSIBM1008,
  CSIBM1025, CSIBM1026, CSIBM1097, CSIBM1112, CSIBM1122, CSIBM1123, CSIBM1124,
  CSIBM1129, CSIBM1130, CSIBM1132, CSIBM1133, CSIBM1137, CSIBM1140, CSIBM1141,
  CSIBM1142, CSIBM1143, CSIBM1144, CSIBM1145, CSIBM1146, CSIBM1147, CSIBM1148,
  CSIBM1149, CSIBM1153, CSIBM1154, CSIBM1155, CSIBM1156, CSIBM1157, CSIBM1158,
  CSIBM1160, CSIBM1161, CSIBM1163, CSIBM1164, CSIBM1166, CSIBM1167, CSIBM1364,
  CSIBM1371, CSIBM1388, CSIBM1390, CSIBM1399, CSIBM4517, CSIBM4899, CSIBM4909,
  CSIBM4971, CSIBM5347, CSIBM9030, CSIBM9066, CSIBM9448, CSIBM12712,
  CSIBM16804, CSIBM11621162, CSISO4UNITEDKINGDOM, CSISO10SWEDISH,
  CSISO11SWEDISHFORNAMES, CSISO14JISC6220RO, CSISO15ITALIAN, CSISO16PORTUGESE,
  CSISO17SPANISH, CSISO18GREEK7OLD, CSISO19LATINGREEK, CSISO21GERMAN,
  CSISO25FRENCH, CSISO27LATINGREEK1, CSISO49INIS, CSISO50INIS8,
  CSISO51INISCYRILLIC, CSISO58GB1988, CSISO60DANISHNORWEGIAN,
  CSISO60NORWEGIAN1, CSISO61NORWEGIAN2, CSISO69FRENCH, CSISO84PORTUGUESE2,
  CSISO85SPANISH2, CSISO86HUNGARIAN, CSISO88GREEK7, CSISO89ASMO449, CSISO90,
  CSISO92JISC62991984B, CSISO99NAPLPS, CSISO103T618BIT, CSISO111ECMACYRILLIC,
  CSISO121CANADIAN1, CSISO122CANADIAN2, CSISO139CSN369103, CSISO141JUSIB1002,
  CSISO143IECP271, CSISO150, CSISO150GREEKCCITT, CSISO151CUBA,
  CSISO153GOST1976874, CSISO646DANISH, CSISO2022CN, CSISO2022JP, CSISO2022JP2,
  CSISO2022KR, CSISO2033, CSISO5427CYRILLIC, CSISO5427CYRILLIC1981,
  CSISO5428GREEK, CSISO10367BOX, CSISOLATIN1, CSISOLATIN2, CSISOLATIN3,
  CSISOLATIN4, CSISOLATIN5, CSISOLATIN6, CSISOLATINARABIC, CSISOLATINCYRILLIC,
  CSISOLATINGREEK, CSISOLATINHEBREW, CSKOI8R, CSKSC5636, CSMACINTOSH,
  CSNATSDANO, CSNATSSEFI, CSN_369103, CSPC8CODEPAGE437, CSPC775BALTIC,
  CSPC850MULTILINGUAL, CSPC858MULTILINGUAL, CSPC862LATINHEBREW, CSPCP852,
  CSSHIFTJIS, CSUCS4, CSUNICODE, CSWINDOWS31J, CUBA, CWI-2, CWI, CYRILLIC, DE,
  DEC-MCS, DEC, DECMCS, DIN_66003, DK, DS2089, DS_2089, E13B, EBCDIC-AT-DE-A,
  EBCDIC-AT-DE, EBCDIC-BE, EBCDIC-BR, EBCDIC-CA-FR, EBCDIC-CP-AR1,
  EBCDIC-CP-AR2, EBCDIC-CP-BE, EBCDIC-CP-CA, EBCDIC-CP-CH, EBCDIC-CP-DK,
  EBCDIC-CP-ES, EBCDIC-CP-FI, EBCDIC-CP-FR, EBCDIC-CP-GB, EBCDIC-CP-GR,
  EBCDIC-CP-HE, EBCDIC-CP-IS, EBCDIC-CP-IT, EBCDIC-CP-NL, EBCDIC-CP-NO,
  EBCDIC-CP-ROECE, EBCDIC-CP-SE, EBCDIC-CP-TR, EBCDIC-CP-US, EBCDIC-CP-WT,
  EBCDIC-CP-YU, EBCDIC-CYRILLIC, EBCDIC-DK-NO-A, EBCDIC-DK-NO, EBCDIC-ES-A,
  EBCDIC-ES-S, EBCDIC-ES, EBCDIC-FI-SE-A, EBCDIC-FI-SE, EBCDIC-FR,
  EBCDIC-GREEK, EBCDIC-INT, EBCDIC-INT1, EBCDIC-IS-FRISS, EBCDIC-IT,
  EBCDIC-JP-E, EBCDIC-JP-KANA, EBCDIC-PT, EBCDIC-UK, EBCDIC-US, EBCDICATDE,
  EBCDICATDEA, EBCDICCAFR, EBCDICDKNO, EBCDICDKNOA, EBCDICES, EBCDICESA,
  EBCDICESS, EBCDICFISE, EBCDICFISEA, EBCDICFR, EBCDICISFRISS, EBCDICIT,
  EBCDICPT, EBCDICUK, EBCDICUS, ECMA-114, ECMA-118, ECMA-128, ECMA-CYRILLIC,
  ECMACYRILLIC, ELOT_928, ES, ES2, EUC-CN, EUC-JISX0213, EUC-JP-MS, EUC-JP,
  EUC-KR, EUC-TW, EUCCN, EUCJP-MS, EUCJP-OPEN, EUCJP-WIN, EUCJP, EUCKR, EUCTW,
  FI, FR, GB, GB2312, GB13000, GB18030, GBK, GB_1988-80, GB_198880,
  GEORGIAN-ACADEMY, GEORGIAN-PS, GOST_19768-74, GOST_19768, GOST_1976874,
  GREEK-CCITT, GREEK, GREEK7-OLD, GREEK7, GREEK7OLD, GREEK8, GREEKCCITT,
  HEBREW, HP-GREEK8, HP-ROMAN8, HP-ROMAN9, HP-THAI8, HP-TURKISH8, HPGREEK8,
  HPROMAN8, HPROMAN9, HPTHAI8, HPTURKISH8, HU, IBM-803, IBM-856, IBM-901,
  IBM-902, IBM-921, IBM-922, IBM-930, IBM-932, IBM-933, IBM-935, IBM-937,
  IBM-939, IBM-943, IBM-1008, IBM-1025, IBM-1046, IBM-1047, IBM-1097, IBM-1112,
  IBM-1122, IBM-1123, IBM-1124, IBM-1129, IBM-1130, IBM-1132, IBM-1133,
  IBM-1137, IBM-1140, IBM-1141, IBM-1142, IBM-1143, IBM-1144, IBM-1145,
  IBM-1146, IBM-1147, IBM-1148, IBM-1149, IBM-1153, IBM-1154, IBM-1155,
  IBM-1156, IBM-1157, IBM-1158, IBM-1160, IBM-1161, IBM-1162, IBM-1163,
  IBM-1164, IBM-1166, IBM-1167, IBM-1364, IBM-1371, IBM-1388, IBM-1390,
  IBM-1399, IBM-4517, IBM-4899, IBM-4909, IBM-4971, IBM-5347, IBM-9030,
  IBM-9066, IBM-9448, IBM-12712, IBM-16804, IBM037, IBM038, IBM256, IBM273,
  IBM274, IBM275, IBM277, IBM278, IBM280, IBM281, IBM284, IBM285, IBM290,
  IBM297, IBM367, IBM420, IBM423, IBM424, IBM437, IBM500, IBM775, IBM803,
  IBM813, IBM819, IBM848, IBM850, IBM851, IBM852, IBM855, IBM856, IBM857,
  IBM858, IBM860, IBM861, IBM862, IBM863, IBM864, IBM865, IBM866, IBM866NAV,
  IBM868, IBM869, IBM870, IBM871, IBM874, IBM875, IBM880, IBM891, IBM901,
  IBM902, IBM903, IBM904, IBM905, IBM912, IBM915, IBM916, IBM918, IBM920,
  IBM921, IBM922, IBM930, IBM932, IBM933, IBM935, IBM937, IBM939, IBM943,
  IBM1004, IBM1008, IBM1025, IBM1026, IBM1046, IBM1047, IBM1089, IBM1097,
  IBM1112, IBM1122, IBM1123, IBM1124, IBM1129, IBM1130, IBM1132, IBM1133,
  IBM1137, IBM1140, IBM1141, IBM1142, IBM1143, IBM1144, IBM1145, IBM1146,
  IBM1147, IBM1148, IBM1149, IBM1153, IBM1154, IBM1155, IBM1156, IBM1157,
  IBM1158, IBM1160, IBM1161, IBM1162, IBM1163, IBM1164, IBM1166, IBM1167,
  IBM1364, IBM1371, IBM1388, IBM1390, IBM1399, IBM4517, IBM4899, IBM4909,
  IBM4971, IBM5347, IBM9030, IBM9066, IBM9448, IBM12712, IBM16804, IEC_P27-1,
  IEC_P271, INIS-8, INIS-CYRILLIC, INIS, INIS8, INISCYRILLIC, ISIRI-3342,
  ISIRI3342, ISO-2022-CN-EXT, ISO-2022-CN, ISO-2022-JP-2, ISO-2022-JP-3,
  ISO-2022-JP, ISO-2022-KR, ISO-8859-1, ISO-8859-2, ISO-8859-3, ISO-8859-4,
  ISO-8859-5, ISO-8859-6, ISO-8859-7, ISO-8859-8, ISO-8859-9, ISO-8859-9E,
  ISO-8859-10, ISO-8859-11, ISO-8859-13, ISO-8859-14, ISO-8859-15, ISO-8859-16,
  ISO-10646, ISO-10646/UCS2, ISO-10646/UCS4, ISO-10646/UTF-8, ISO-10646/UTF8,
  ISO-CELTIC, ISO-IR-4, ISO-IR-6, ISO-IR-8-1, ISO-IR-9-1, ISO-IR-10, ISO-IR-11,
  ISO-IR-14, ISO-IR-15, ISO-IR-16, ISO-IR-17, ISO-IR-18, ISO-IR-19, ISO-IR-21,
  ISO-IR-25, ISO-IR-27, ISO-IR-37, ISO-IR-49, ISO-IR-50, ISO-IR-51, ISO-IR-54,
  ISO-IR-55, ISO-IR-57, ISO-IR-60, ISO-IR-61, ISO-IR-69, ISO-IR-84, ISO-IR-85,
  ISO-IR-86, ISO-IR-88, ISO-IR-89, ISO-IR-90, ISO-IR-92, ISO-IR-98, ISO-IR-99,
  ISO-IR-100, ISO-IR-101, ISO-IR-103, ISO-IR-109, ISO-IR-110, ISO-IR-111,
  ISO-IR-121, ISO-IR-122, ISO-IR-126, ISO-IR-127, ISO-IR-138, ISO-IR-139,
  ISO-IR-141, ISO-IR-143, ISO-IR-144, ISO-IR-148, ISO-IR-150, ISO-IR-151,
  ISO-IR-153, ISO-IR-155, ISO-IR-156, ISO-IR-157, ISO-IR-166, ISO-IR-179,
  ISO-IR-193, ISO-IR-197, ISO-IR-199, ISO-IR-203, ISO-IR-209, ISO-IR-226,
  ISO/TR_11548-1, ISO646-CA, ISO646-CA2, ISO646-CN, ISO646-CU, ISO646-DE,
  ISO646-DK, ISO646-ES, ISO646-ES2, ISO646-FI, ISO646-FR, ISO646-FR1,
  ISO646-GB, ISO646-HU, ISO646-IT, ISO646-JP-OCR-B, ISO646-JP, ISO646-KR,
  ISO646-NO, ISO646-NO2, ISO646-PT, ISO646-PT2, ISO646-SE, ISO646-SE2,
  ISO646-US, ISO646-YU, ISO2022CN, ISO2022CNEXT, ISO2022JP, ISO2022JP2,
  ISO2022KR, ISO6937, ISO8859-1, ISO8859-2, ISO8859-3, ISO8859-4, ISO8859-5,
  ISO8859-6, ISO8859-7, ISO8859-8, ISO8859-9, ISO8859-9E, ISO8859-10,
  ISO8859-11, ISO8859-13, ISO8859-14, ISO8859-15, ISO8859-16, ISO11548-1,
  ISO88591, ISO88592, ISO88593, ISO88594, ISO88595, ISO88596, ISO88597,
  ISO88598, ISO88599, ISO88599E, ISO885910, ISO885911, ISO885913, ISO885914,
  ISO885915, ISO885916, ISO_646.IRV:1991, ISO_2033-1983, ISO_2033,
  ISO_5427-EXT, ISO_5427, ISO_5427:1981, ISO_5427EXT, ISO_5428, ISO_5428:1980,
  ISO_6937-2, ISO_6937-2:1983, ISO_6937, ISO_6937:1992, ISO_8859-1,
  ISO_8859-1:1987, ISO_8859-2, ISO_8859-2:1987, ISO_8859-3, ISO_8859-3:1988,
  ISO_8859-4, ISO_8859-4:1988, ISO_8859-5, ISO_8859-5:1988, ISO_8859-6,
  ISO_8859-6:1987, ISO_8859-7, ISO_8859-7:1987, ISO_8859-7:2003, ISO_8859-8,
  ISO_8859-8:1988, ISO_8859-9, ISO_8859-9:1989, ISO_8859-9E, ISO_8859-10,
  ISO_8859-10:1992, ISO_8859-14, ISO_8859-14:1998, ISO_8859-15,
  ISO_8859-15:1998, ISO_8859-16, ISO_8859-16:2001, ISO_9036, ISO_10367-BOX,
  ISO_10367BOX, ISO_11548-1, ISO_69372, IT, JIS_C6220-1969-RO,
  JIS_C6229-1984-B, JIS_C62201969RO, JIS_C62291984B, JOHAB, JP-OCR-B, JP, JS,
  JUS_I.B1.002, KOI-7, KOI-8, KOI8-R, KOI8-RU, KOI8-T, KOI8-U, KOI8, KOI8R,
  KOI8U, KSC5636, L1, L2, L3, L4, L5, L6, L7, L8, L10, LATIN-9, LATIN-GREEK-1,
  LATIN-GREEK, LATIN1, LATIN2, LATIN3, LATIN4, LATIN5, LATIN6, LATIN7, LATIN8,
  LATIN9, LATIN10, LATINGREEK, LATINGREEK1, MAC-CENTRALEUROPE, MAC-CYRILLIC,
  MAC-IS, MAC-SAMI, MAC-UK, MAC, MACCYRILLIC, MACINTOSH, MACIS, MACUK,
  MACUKRAINIAN, MIK, MS-ANSI, MS-ARAB, MS-CYRL, MS-EE, MS-GREEK, MS-HEBR,
  MS-MAC-CYRILLIC, MS-TURK, MS932, MS936, MSCP949, MSCP1361, MSMACCYRILLIC,
  MSZ_7795.3, MS_KANJI, NAPLPS, NATS-DANO, NATS-SEFI, NATSDANO, NATSSEFI,
  NC_NC0010, NC_NC00-10, NC_NC00-10:81, NF_Z_62-010, NF_Z_62-010_(1973),
  NF_Z_62-010_1973, NF_Z_62010, NF_Z_62010_1973, NO, NO2, NS_4551-1, NS_4551-2,
  NS_45511, NS_45512, OS2LATIN1, OSF00010001, OSF00010002, OSF00010003,
  OSF00010004, OSF00010005, OSF00010006, OSF00010007, OSF00010008, OSF00010009,
  OSF0001000A, OSF00010020, OSF00010100, OSF00010101, OSF00010102, OSF00010104,
  OSF00010105, OSF00010106, OSF00030010, OSF0004000A, OSF0005000A, OSF05010001,
  OSF100201A4, OSF100201A8, OSF100201B5, OSF100201F4, OSF100203B5, OSF1002011C,
  OSF1002011D, OSF1002035D, OSF1002035E, OSF1002035F, OSF1002036B, OSF1002037B,
  OSF10010001, OSF10010004, OSF10010006, OSF10020025, OSF10020111, OSF10020115,
  OSF10020116, OSF10020118, OSF10020122, OSF10020129, OSF10020352, OSF10020354,
  OSF10020357, OSF10020359, OSF10020360, OSF10020364, OSF10020365, OSF10020366,
  OSF10020367, OSF10020370, OSF10020387, OSF10020388, OSF10020396, OSF10020402,
  OSF10020417, PT, PT2, PT154, R8, R9, RK1048, ROMAN8, ROMAN9, RUSCII, SE, SE2,
  SEN_850200_B, SEN_850200_C, SHIFT-JIS, SHIFTJISX0213, SHIFT_JIS,
  SHIFT_JISX0213, SJIS-OPEN, SJIS-WIN, SJIS, SS636127, STRK1048-2002,
  ST_SEV_358-88, T.61-8BIT, T.61, T.618BIT, TCVN-5712, TCVN, TCVN5712-1,
  TCVN5712-1:1993, THAI8, TIS-620, TIS620-0, TIS620.2529-1, TIS620.2533-0,
  TIS620, TS-5881, TSCII, TURKISH8, UCS-2, UCS-2BE, UCS-2LE, UCS-4, UCS-4BE,
  UCS-4LE, UCS2, UCS4, UHC, UJIS, UK, UNICODE, UNICODEBIG, UNICODELITTLE,
  US-ASCII, US, UTF-7, UTF-8, UTF-16, UTF-16BE, UTF-16LE, UTF-32, UTF-32BE,
  UTF-32LE, UTF7, UTF8, UTF16, UTF16BE, UTF16LE, UTF32, UTF32BE, UTF32LE,
  VISCII, WCHAR_T, WIN-SAMI-2, WINBALTRIM, WINDOWS-31J, WINDOWS-874,
  WINDOWS-936, WINDOWS-1250, WINDOWS-1251, WINDOWS-1252, WINDOWS-1253,
  WINDOWS-1254, WINDOWS-1255, WINDOWS-1256, WINDOWS-1257, WINDOWS-1258,
  WINSAMI2, WS2, YU

1179 by my count. No, I am not going to find out how many are unique and how many are aliased.

Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012

Re: Standards? Eat your heart out, Randall

trønderen25-Feb-24 17:10

trønderen

25-Feb-24 17:10

"furthermore, if you do not like any of them, you can just wait for next year's model."

(Andrew Tanenbaum, 1981, "Computer Networks" p.168)

Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.

Re: Standards? Eat your heart out, Randall

jeron126-Feb-24 5:37

jeron1

26-Feb-24 5:37

Sheesh, everybody knows that

OSF10020370

was so much better than

856

"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle

Re: Standards? Eat your heart out, Randall

Nelek26-Feb-24 5:38

Nelek

26-Feb-24 5:38

Sadly no date in Randalls XKCD Frown | :(

M.D.V.

If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

Re: Standards? Eat your heart out, Randall

Peter_in_278026-Feb-24 10:31

Peter_in_2780

26-Feb-24 10:31

XKCD Archive page says
2011-7-20

Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012

Re: Standards? Eat your heart out, Randall

Amarnath S30-Mar-24 0:03

Amarnath S

30-Mar-24 0:03

Maybe we need a Standard for those who make Standards.

But, who will draft that Standard? Who will bell the cat?

Re: Standards? Eat your heart out, Randall

trønderen31-Mar-24 11:11

trønderen

31-Mar-24 11:11

There may be an RFC for that tomorrow.

Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.

Supporting multiple cores from bare metal C

honey the codewitch13-Feb-24 6:17

honey the codewitch

13-Feb-24 6:17

I always wondered what a bare metal C implementation - the kind you'd use to write even parts of low level boot loader code would do to expose things like a 2nd core.

Or rather, how do you use a 2nd core without a scheduler? I've always kinda wondered about that.

The answer is simple. You activate the core in the bootloader and then get the core to JMP to your code. One main() in effect, for each core.

C++

extern "C" void aux_core_main()
{
    // 2nd core just starts here. Spin a loop. Be happy.
}

Synchronization is a whole different story, but if you don't need to synchronize, why waste any overhead on scheduling?

Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix

Re: Supporting multiple cores from bare metal C

11917640 Member 14-Feb-24 22:39

11917640 Member

14-Feb-24 22:39

Symmetric Multiprocessing (SMP) with FreeRTOS

Re: Supporting multiple cores from bare metal C

honey the codewitch15-Feb-24 0:03

honey the codewitch

15-Feb-24 0:03

That's using a scheduler and an OS. The point of my post was what happens with 2nd core activation in the absence of a scheduler.

Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix

Re: Supporting multiple cores from bare metal C

11917640 Member 15-Feb-24 1:04

11917640 Member

15-Feb-24 1:04

Nice. It's always interesting to go more and more "bare" in bare metal development.
Regarding RTOS - I am surprised, that it is called OS, I always think about it as kind of multitasking library. Not full-featured OS like embedded Linux, and available in bare metal projects.

Re: Supporting multiple cores from bare metal C

honey the codewitch15-Feb-24 5:03

honey the codewitch

15-Feb-24 5:03

Well for the purposes of what I'm talking about an RTOS (which is a kind of OS, albeit a RealTime OS) is an operating system. It has a scheduler to handle context switching. Smile | :)

Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix

Source Generators in C# and TDD misadventure time

honey the codewitch31-Jan-24 6:30

honey the codewitch

31-Jan-24 6:30

I'm very new to the source generator technology in C# so bear with me, as my information is probably incomplete or inaccurate but what I've discovered so far is amusing and annoying at the same time.

I tried to get a source generator referenced from one project for use in another project and I was getting weird results when crawling the syntax tree. I don't even know how to google about the results I'm getting back. It's hard to explain, but it breaks the thing.

Creating an incremental generator[^]

I followed this code precisely, and it didn't work on my system.

However, it will work when I invoke the generator to run specifically as part of a unit test. I haven't had as much luck invoking it outside a test framework. I have no idea why this is.

I *believe* (read: hope) it will work when packaged as a NuGet package as well, which is how it was designed to be deployed and used.

Of course, I don't want to deploy a NuGet package of code still in initial development.

The bottom line for all of this is that this leaves me in the position of being forced to perform Test Driven Development in order to make source generators.

I don't know if this is a weirdness with my machine, or perhaps a quirk in this relatively new technology or what, but it's just bizarre to be forced into a particular development paradigm like this.

Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix

Re: Source Generators in C# and TDD misadventure time

Graeme_Grant31-Jan-24 21:18

Graeme_Grant

31-Jan-24 21:18

I will be working on a Source Generator this weekend, my first time too. I was looking at the same article series and a video linked below.

honey the codewitch wrote:
I followed this code precisely, and it didn't work on my system.

Have a look at this: How to Organize Your .NET Minimal APIs with Source Generator - YouTube[^]

When I finish tackling this task, I will publish an article.

Graeme

"I fear not the man who has practiced ten thousand kicks one time, but I fear the man that has practiced one kick ten thousand times!" - Bruce Lee

Re: Source Generators in C# and TDD misadventure time

honey the codewitch1-Feb-24 5:58

honey the codewitch

1-Feb-24 5:58

Yeah, I just sat through that youtube video to tell me everything I already know, and that nevertheless does not work on my system as advertised.

I have to use a test framework to get the damned thing to run at all. Microsoft can get effed. Mad | :mad:

Edit: IT WORKS! You just have to close VS and reopen it for it to actually take effect. Be nice if somebody said something.

Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix

Re: Source Generators in C# and TDD misadventure time

Graeme_Grant1-Feb-24 8:31

Graeme_Grant

1-Feb-24 8:31

honey the codewitch wrote:
Edit: IT WORKS! You just have to close VS and reopen it for it to actually take effect.

Congrats and thanks for the tip!

Graeme

"I fear not the man who has practiced ten thousand kicks one time, but I fear the man that has practiced one kick ten thousand times!" - Bruce Lee

Command line fun in .NET

honey the codewitch27-Jan-24 7:10

honey the codewitch

27-Jan-24 7:10

void Main(string[] args) is broken.

The issue is this: It dequotes values but doesn't tell you which ones were quoted. So if you naively use these as arguments, you will interpret the literal string "/ifstale" as a command line switch /ifstale instead of a literal string. Yes, the problem is a bit contrived, but it's kind of scary to think about the possibilities where something like it can crop up. It flies in the face of application robustness.

My solution involves Environment.CommandLine which reports the raw command line argument, quotes and all.

The issue with that is sometimes your .NET assembly is hosted by another executable, like dotnet.exe and then your arguments are all off by two.

Here's what i have to do. Basically what I'm doing is making the switch -- normally, but / for windows, primarily because of file path issues causing ambiguities with /

After that I crack the command line arguments, getting the exe name separately. I didn't post that code but it's here if you're interested: Environment.CommandLine cracker - Pastebin.com[^]

var prefix = "--";
if (Environment.OSVersion.Platform == PlatformID.Win32NT)
{
    prefix = "/";
}
var cl = Environment.CommandLine;
string exename;
var clargs = CrackCommandLine(cl, out exename);
if (clargs.Count >= args.Length)
{
    clargs = clargs.GetRange(clargs.Count - args.Length, args.Length);
}
else
{
    clargs.Clear();
    for (int i = 0; i < args.Length; i++)
    {
        clargs.Add(new KeyValuePair<bool, string>(false, args[i]));
    }
}

Then - get this - I have to count the arguments backward from the end to match them up to your actual executable's arguments, and that's the only thing the args[] array is good for.

Now at the end of that code, you have keyvaluepair arguments where the Key is whether it's quoted or not, and the Value is the de-quoted, de-escaped value in any case. It's dirty, but it works.

Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix

Re: Command line fun in .NET

PIEBALDconsult27-Jan-24 7:24

PIEBALDconsult

27-Jan-24 7:24

I agree, I don't do that. I parse Environment.CommandLine myself (using a rather complex Regular Expression).

Oh, thats right, I have an article on it...
ParsedCommandLine[^]

(It's not up-to-date, I added more features to it over the years.)

Re: Command line fun in .NET

honey the codewitch27-Jan-24 7:37

honey the codewitch

27-Jan-24 7:37

A regex is kind of complicated for that. I prefer using my looping dual state state machine (state is just represented by the isQuote bool.

The technique i presented above is used in the latest GitHub bits of the project here:
Program.Base: Drop In Command Line Application Functionality for Your Projects[^]

It does: Command line parsing, using screen generation, error handling, file and argument object lifetime management, word wrapping (necessary for using screen anyway so i exposed it) stale file checking and progress reporting.

It's a drop in file with no dependencies, and is targeted to .NET Framework as well as the newer stuff. (I have two files for it but the only difference between them is the .NET Framework (DNF) file does not have #nullable disable at the top, which shuts up nullable reference type warnings in the newer C#. You just pick the one you need.

If you can get it approved by your work you're more than welcome to it. I developed it because I got sick of writing essentially the same code over and over again.

This is less work than that System.CommandLine stuff, and does more.

Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix

Microsoft example includes obsolete code: Why?

raddevus25-Jan-24 2:15

raddevus

25-Jan-24 2:15

File this one under Weird (Weird Documentation)

I was looking for a way to read the thumbprint of a X509 Certificate and found a perfect example at:

X509Certificate2.Thumbprint Property (System.Security.Cryptography.X509Certificates) | Microsoft Learn[^]

It's a nice compact sample where you pass in the path to the Cert and it prints out properties of the cert.

However, there's a line in the code that I was curious about:

x509.Import(rawData);

Just Want To Read Properties of Cert
Just wanted to make sure it wasn't importing the cert into my local cert store.
I really don't want to do that. Just want to read properties.

Microsoft Docs On X509.Import
So I looked up the method in the docs (X509Certificate2.Import Method [^])

*Note, if you examine the URL you'll see that it includes view=net-8.0 (assuming that is referencing the latest .net 8.0 docs)

Import Method is Marked Obsolete
But then when you look at the docs the Import method is marked obsolete.
But there doesn't seem to be any mention why.

Since Import just imports the bytes of the certificate (doesn't import it into the cert store -- that is confusing naming) Confused | :confused:

I went ahead and ran the sample.

Sample Ran Perfectly Fine
Of course the sample ran fine and served my needs.
But the "obsolete" thing is confusing. Confused | :confused:

Not sure why there isn't a pointer to more updated sample. Confused | :confused:

Re: Microsoft example includes obsolete code: Why?

Bruno van Dooren25-Jan-24 5:28

Bruno van Dooren

25-Jan-24 5:28

I think it has to do with the fact that mutable certificates are no longer considered secure.
KB5025823 Change in how .NET applications import X.509 certificates - Microsoft Support[^]

Re: Microsoft example includes obsolete code: Why?

raddevus25-Jan-24 8:50

raddevus

25-Jan-24 8:50

That's a good find and I appreciate you providing the link here.
Once I read that, I remembered having to make a code change related to it back in 2021/2 because this functionality change was being reported ahead of time.

It's too bad they didn't make that link more conspicuous in the Import method docs.
Thanks again

Found an interesting algorithm

honey the codewitch21-Jan-24 5:16

honey the codewitch

21-Jan-24 5:16

Update 3: Main-Lorentz isn't quite as slick as I hoped. Since it subdivides it will find foofoofoofoofoof and make it (foofoo){2}foof. Still it does alright, and I augmented it to find the extra foo in some cases like below:

Terminal

var nfa = FA.Parse(@"(ba[rz])*(foo){3}f");
nfa.ToString("e") = @"(foofoofoof|ba[rz](ba[rz])*foofoofoof)"
nfa.ToString("r") = @"(ba[rz])*(foo){3}f"
RegexOrExpression: foofoofoof|ba[rz](ba[rz])*foofoofoof
    RegexLiteralExpression: foofoofoof
    RegexConcatExpression: ba[rz](ba[rz])*foofoofoof
        RegexLiteralExpression: ba
        RegexCharsetExpression: [rz]
        RegexRepeatExpression: (ba[rz])*
            RegexConcatExpression: ba[rz]
                RegexLiteralExpression: ba
                RegexCharsetExpression: [rz]
        RegexLiteralExpression: foofoofoof
Reducing...
RegexConcatExpression: (ba[rz])*(foo){3}f
    RegexRepeatExpression: (ba[rz])*
        RegexConcatExpression: ba[rz]
            RegexLiteralExpression: ba
            RegexCharsetExpression: [rz]
    RegexRepeatExpression: (foo){3}
        RegexLiteralExpression: foo
    RegexLiteralExpression: f
(ba[rz])*(foo){3}f

Update 2: I got the algorithm working. Now I just need to port away from my C++ comfort zone into C# and make it part of my lib.

Update: I still haven't gotten the algorithm to work but it's the final piece of the puzzle for my particular current test case:

Terminal

var nfa = FA.Parse(@"(ba[rz])*(foo){3}f");
nfa.ToString("e") = @"(foofoofoof|ba[rz](ba[rz])*foofoofoof)"
nfa.ToString("r") = @"(ba[rz])*foofoofoof"
RegexOrExpression: foofoofoof|ba[rz](ba[rz])*foofoofoof
    RegexLiteralExpression: foofoofoof
    RegexConcatExpression: ba[rz](ba[rz])*foofoofoof
        RegexLiteralExpression: ba
        RegexCharsetExpression: [rz]
        RegexRepeatExpression: (ba[rz])*
            RegexConcatExpression: ba[rz]
                RegexLiteralExpression: ba
                RegexCharsetExpression: [rz]
        RegexLiteralExpression: foofoofoof
Reducing...
RegexConcatExpression: (ba[rz])*foofoofoof
    RegexRepeatExpression: (ba[rz])*
        RegexConcatExpression: ba[rz]
            RegexLiteralExpression: ba
            RegexCharsetExpression: [rz]
    RegexLiteralExpression: foofoofoof
Final reduce yields: (ba[rz])*foofoofoof

Oh boy, a bit of background first:

I have (soon to be past tense) a programming problem wherein I'm trying to reduce the complexity and/or redundancy of a regular expression. This is primarily because converting from a state machine to a regular expression yields a lot of redundancy and weird loop boundaries and stuff. It's correct, but even harder to read than a typical regex expression.

So I load this into an abstract syntax tree representing the expression through things like RegexConcatExpression and RegexLiteralExpression.

I then keep trying to reduce the whole tree until no more changes have occurred. Each expression class has it's own reduction process. Right now I'm working on RegexLiteralExpression

The big idea here is to reduce expressions like "bazfoofoofoobar" into "baz(foo){3}bar"

So i need an algorithm to find me "foofoofoo" in that string.

Enter this clever bit of mathiness:

Finding repetitions - Algorithms for Competitive Programming[^]

Pretty cool stuff. I ported it to C#.

Edit: And after trying a second implementation as well as the above, I don't understand the results I'm getting. Cry | :((

Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix

modified 23-Jan-24 9:28am.

Re: Found an interesting algorithm

Nelek21-Jan-24 6:15

Nelek

21-Jan-24 6:15

Quote:
And after trying a second implementation as well as the above, I don't understand the results I'm getting. Cry |

Welcome to my world Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

M.D.V.

Re: Found an interesting algorithm

Greg Utas21-Jan-24 13:32

Greg Utas

21-Jan-24 13:32

honey the codewitch wrote:
I don't understand the results I'm getting.

This reminded me of a comment that I read long ago:

quote:
Abandon hope all ye who look at this code. Not even its author knows how it works, or why.

The code in question sent instructions to a remote virtual stack machine for which proper documentation no longer existed. It was partially written by trying various inputs and observing the behavior of the black box. Big Grin | :-D

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