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BernardIE5317 wrote: from Miriam Webster
Well if you will use a foreign dictionary ... 
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Quote: 'b' suits my purpose as stated i find the term utilized upon discussion / study of brief samples / specimens of code intended to be exemplar of more general usage
Maybe you should have used the example given as a guide - the portion in question is not a unique portion. In order to count as a specimen, using the example given in the section you quote, it must be identical or consistent with the whole from which the specimen was taken.
b: a portion or quantity of material for use in testing, examination, or study
a urine specimen
I'm guessing that English isn't your first language from the incorrect phrasing of "exemplar" (which is a noun) and should be "an exemplar of". I can understand, then, why you would consider "specimen" to be related to "snippet".
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thank you for the correction to my incorrect usage . one such error and you deduced i am from Mars . perhaps my green complexion gave it away .
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Quote: thank you for the correction to my incorrect usage . one such error and you deduced i am from Mars . perhaps my green complexion gave it away .
Well, on the internet it's not rare to read posts from people who don't have English as a primary language.[1]
And it's not like I leapt to conclusions after just
one such error
Look at it from the point of view of a native English speaker: you misunderstood the dictionary definition of "specimen" even with the explanatory example given in the dictionary that you quoted, and you misunderstood the usage of "exemplar".
I meant no disrespect by assuming English was not your primary language; I'd expect a similar response if I, in my secondary language, confused two unrelated terms and used a third term incorrectly, all in the space of a single paragraph.
[1] I myself am bilingual, and I know that I make trivial errors when speaking in my second language (first is English). I don't automatically jump to accusations that the other party, who's a native speaker in that language, considers me an alien.
PS. Have you typed "what is the difference between a snippet and a specimen?" into an English-language LLM? After all, it's a Large Language Model, so something like ChatGPT is going to easily be able to provide the difference in meaning between two extremely common words.
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Member 13301679 wrote: Well, on the internet it's not rare to read posts from people who don't have English as a primary language.[1]
In my working group many years ago, there was Robert, born and raised in Norway but with a Scottish mother. Then there was Linda, born and raised in England; she came to Norway a couple years earlier. And there was Ellen, Norwegian born and raised, but she had for 30 years worked as a top level secretary, responsible for the external correspondence of large multi-national corporations in the US and France.
Robert claimed that it was very easy to hear that Ellen is not a native English speaker - because she spoke it perfectly! She would never make those "errors" (due to sloppiness, laziness or whatever) that every native speaker makes in his native tongue, in any language. Every now and then he pointed out something Linda said, "Ellen would never have said that! It is not perfect English, the way she speaks". Yet, to most people Linda sounded perfectly like an Englishman (as she was!).
Another story from that same group: There were two other guys there, Alex from Australia and John from USA. I was going to make a presentation to customers, and was preparing some "PowerPoints" (it wasn't really PPT, but similar). One constant problem when switching between Norwegian and English. I wasn't sure that I had picked the right one, so I went to British Linda's cubicle to ask her. No, rather than xxx, you should rather use yyy! This was overheard by the Australian Alex, who protested: No, you should use zzz! The disagreement caught USA John's attention, who got up and insisted: The correct would be www!
The three native English speakers were on the border of going into a fistfight over this (the only thing they could agree about was that my initial proposal was not the right preposition to use), and the group leader had to interfere to calm down the argument. I most certainly learned from this that anyone who claims something to be The Correct Wording in English is a person not to be trusted in English language matters. 
And it does affect my reading of this thread
(Unfortunately, I do not remember neither my first, ditched, proposal nor the three alternatives - it is too long ago. It really doesn't matter for the point of the story.)
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
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I doubt specimen will catch on. It implies something kept behind glass to prevent damage/contamination. When teaching something you do not want to distance your audience from the code in any way.
You have already used probably the best word - sample.
You could also use example.
I doubt any of these words will get common use though.
Unfortunately the term snippet has become entrenched in some peoples minds as the correct term for a short piece of code.
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Quote: Unfortunately the term snippet has become entrenched in some peoples minds as the correct term for a short piece of code.
I think the problem the OP is going to run into is that "snippet" already had a meaning decades before the first computer was even invented, and it's the same meaning as used for code as it was used for newspapers.
If the word had a different meaning in the context of computers, OP might have a point, but right now arguing that a well-defined word with well-defined meaning should mean something else when computers are involved is difficult, and it is doubly hard when the replacement is another existing word with a completely unrelated meaning.
If I were propose "I don't like the word 'content' in the context of programming, I think we should replace it with 'automobile'", I'd expect similar confusion from my audience as OP is getting.
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Unfortunately "specimen" already has a meaning in English, and it means "An example of $CATEGORY".
The phrase "the following specimen of C++" would literally mean "The following content is an example of C++ programming", while "the following snippet of C++" means "The following content is only a portion of a whole C++ program".
You are going to find it difficult to get people to agree to overload an existing well-defined word with a new unrelated meaning.
I'm not saying it's impossible to assign new made-up meanings to existing words, I'm just saying that's it's an uphill battle with low likelihood of success, especially in the case of overloading a well-defined and universally understood word.
What you propose is no different from proposing that the word 'and' is replaced by the word 'green'. You'll just confuse people when you say "Me green my brother went out green got snacks".
modified 2-Jan-24 5:15am.
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re/ "... a portion of a whole C++ program" in my encounters w/ the term i could find no whole program anywhere in sight .
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BernardIE5317 wrote: re/ "... a portion of a whole C++ program" in my encounters w/ the term i could find no whole program anywhere in sight .
Well, obviously not. When someone says "here's a snippet", why would they post the whole program? If they were showing the whole program they wouldn't say "here's a snippet", would they?
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re/ "... the whole program ..." what whole program ? where is this "whole" program of which you so confidently speak ? as per article link below nowhere in site or even indication thereof therewith thereupon .
Structured bindings in C++17, 5 years later - C++ Stories[^]
here is a snipppet of code : return; let us examine and discuss it in all its detail . is this proper usage of the term ?
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Well, the only place it uses the word snippet is when referring to a shot piece extracted from a longer example:
Quote: In the above snippet, we bind to myPair. But this also means you can provide support for your classes, assuming you add the get<n> interface implementation. See an example in the later section.
You are using the word snippet to refer to return, but the article uses the word example liberally for the code it presents.
"Snippet" has always meant "a part taken out of a larger whole". Specimen has always meant "a representative sample of a category".
Try this with a Large Language Model:
Quote:
User
What does "analyse this specimen" mean?
ChatGPT
"Analyze this specimen" is a directive to closely examine and evaluate a particular object, sample, or subject. The word "specimen" refers to a representative example or sample of something, often used in scientific contexts. When someone asks to analyze a specimen, they are typically requesting a detailed examination, assessment, or study of the given object or sample to gain insights, draw conclusions, or gather information. The nature of the analysis can vary based on the context, such as scientific research, medical diagnosis, forensic investigation, or any other field where a careful examination is required.
User
What does "analyse this snippet" mean?
ChatGPT
"Analyze this snippet" is a request to examine and evaluate a specific, usually small portion or excerpt of something, such as code, text, data, or any other content. The term "snippet" refers to a brief and typically representative section of a larger whole. When someone asks you to analyze a snippet, they are asking you to closely examine that particular portion to understand its details, identify patterns, extract information, or gain insights relevant to a specific context.
For example, in programming, you might be asked to analyze a code snippet to find errors, understand its functionality, or suggest improvements. In a literary context, analyzing a text snippet could involve examining its language, themes, or literary devices. The nature of the analysis depends on the specific domain or context in which the snippet is presented.
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std::pair myPair(0, 1.0f);
auto [a, b] = myPair; re/ "Snippet" has always meant "a part taken out of a larger whole".
please show where the above "snippet" is present in a larger whole as i am unable to find it .
re/ "Specimen has always meant "a representative sample of a category"."
that is precisely what the "specimen" is as it is representative of the use of structured bindings to classes .
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Quote: re/ "Snippet" has always meant "a part taken out of a larger whole".
please show where the above "snippet" is present in a larger whole as i am unable to find it .
Why would something be present if it was taken out of a larger whole? What's the point of extracting something specific from a larger whole if you're going to reproduce the whole anyway?
The point of presenting something snipped out of a body of content is to avoid presenting the entire body of content.
TBH, if your definition of the word "snippet" differs from both dictionary and usage, it's your definition that's wrong, not the damn dictionary.
Quote: re/ "Specimen has always meant "a representative sample of a category"."
that is precisely what the "specimen" is as it is representative of the use of structured bindings to classes .
"Demonstration of usage" is not generally accepted as a part of a taxonomy. Why do you feel that an example is the same thing as a category?
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struct cSnippet{cSnippet()=delete;};i wish to discuss deleted default constructors so present above code . is it a snippet or a specimen or an example or a sample or as extract or an excerpt ? if you insist on "snippet" i will state it has not been "snipped" from anything .
as for prior structured bindings example there is no reason to believe\assume\imagine\fantasize it has been "snipped" from anything either . if you know better please explain how you reached that conclusion .
unless the larger whole is referenced it is only confusing to the reader to indirectly refer to its irrelevant existence by use of term in question .
as for specimen below i rather doubt any such code exists in a larger whole as no doubt the author is a fine programmer .
std::pair myPair(0, 1.0f);
auto [a, b] = myPair;
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Quote: i wish to discuss deleted default constructors so present above code . is it a snippet or a specimen or an example or a sample or as extract or an excerpt ? if you insist on "snippet" i will state it has not been "snipped" from anything .
If you insist that it is not part of a larger piece of content, then "sample" or "example" are accurate.
Specimen, as your links pointed out to both of us, refers to representative samples of a category. Are you arguing that two lines of C++ code is a representative sample of C++, or a representative sample of a program?
What exactly do you think those two lines are a representative sample of?
Quote: unless the larger whole is referenced it is only confusing to the reader to indirectly refer to its irrelevant existence by use of term in question .
Maybe it is, but that's what the word means. Snippet as always meant "snipped out of something". That you find it confusing is not really relevant to what the meaning of the word is.
Quote: as for specimen below i rather doubt any such code exists in a larger whole as no doubt the author is a fine programmer .
You are literally saying that those two lines are not a representative sample of the author's code.
You literally say it doesn't fit the definition of "specimen", so why use the word?
As the person proposing to redefine existing meanings, maybe you should provide a good argument for why you'd like to redefine existing meanings?
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i will insist it is not snipped from anything only after you assume it is correct to refer to it as a snippet just as you assume re/ referenced article .
yes those two lines are representative of the use of structured bindings w/ classes as previously stated .
as always and yet again there is no reason to believe those two lines were snipped from anything .
of course they are not representative of the authors' quality of code however as stated repeatedly they are representative of the use of structured bindings w/ classes again as previously stated ad nauseum .
i do not recall attempting to redefine the term only to utilize the correct one .
even when correct the term "snippet" sounds almost childish and less serious than exempli gratia "excerpt" and we must agree software development is serious business and certainly requires serious effort .
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Quote: i do not recall attempting to redefine the term only to utilize the correct one .
The dictionary, with example, did not convince you that the "code specimen" is not a replacement for "code snippet". A Large Language Model in trained in English did not convince you.
Do you have a link to any publication in English that uses the word specimen as you assert is "correct"?
In other words, can you find anyone who agrees with you that your definition is correct?
Just one link, preferably an authoritative source like a real publication.
If you cannot find anyone who uses the word "specimen" in the specific context that you want to use it it, why remain certain that English is wrong and you are right?
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i will answer your questions after i obtain answers to mine .
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Quote: i will answer your questions after i obtain answers to mine .
You can't find a link that agrees with you, can you?
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you have no logical answers to the points i raised do you ?
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Quote: you have no logical answers to the points i raised do you ?
I'll answer any logical question I see. Arguing to use a word in a way not used by the rest of the speakers of that language is not really logical, now is it?
You put forward an argument for why the rest of the world is wrong, I remain unconvinced that you are correct and the rest of the world is wrong.
You need to provide some evidence for why you think the rest of the world is wrong.
PS. Aren't you even just a little bit concerned that no on on earth shares your definition of the word "specimen"?
I know if I was arguing for something, I'd rethink my position if the rest of the world unanimously disagreed with me.
After all, you haven't found anyone who agrees with your definition of "specimen". You should be very concerned.
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It's now just after 9:00pm and the temp is down to 26C (with a feels like 31C). Today we had mid to high 30s (37 I think).
Last Christmas (surprise surprise it has hot) our air-con gave up the ghost and six sweltering weeks later we got a new one installed. And guess what, yep, the pump in the air-con stopped working 3 days ago. Luckily I've got a mate who does this sort of thing for a living and is fixing it very early in the morning. We would have done it yesterday but the roof cavity in the afternoon is not a good place to work in.
Shouldn't complain, we've had some severe storms this last week. Lots of places on the Gold Coast still without power.
On the plus side it's too hot to do anything, other than sit in the pool with a few cold ones. It's sooooo hard to take.
// TODO: Insert something here Top ten reasons why I'm lazy
1.
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Best reasons for living Down Under:
- Terrible weather
- Poisonous critters
- Drop bears
...
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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