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RickZeeland wrote: ...than in e.g. American culture...
On both coasts and in large(er) cities, rude, critical, and judgmental are the way of business (and residential) life. We gave up respect for others a long time ago.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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These two may be here on CP, and reading your message. If so, they will get your message here itself.
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I don't think they visit CodeProject, my attempts to make them enthousiastic for CP were in vain 
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RickZeeland wrote: my attempts to make them enthousiastic for CP were in vain
Honestly makes me suspicious about them. Why didn't they like it?
Are they not interested in learning and growing?
Maybe they truly aren't Growth mindset but are actually Fixed mindset.
In that case it will be difficult to resolve the issues.
I commend you for honestly opening up and trying.
Unfortunately, some people are Fixed in their ways and don't want to be changed at all.
Good luck and I hope you can work it out. 
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Well, most developers I know have big ego's and usually I have to tip-toe around them 
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raddevus wrote: Are they not interested in learning and growing?
TBH due to my line of work I learned very little on CP apart from some curiosities. This is basically a nerd recreational platform for me 
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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den2k88 wrote: This is basically a nerd recreational platform for me
How dare you!!
CP Guard: <Collars den2k88> <Takes CP Member Card, places in shredder> <Boots den2k88 out door> <brushes hands off> Well, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Please know this is a joke.
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Makes me think about "breaking the ice" by giving some informal praise (in a smart way) to a team colleague, as this makes own position stronger and can improve the level of trust ... Building trust happens step by step, but bridge building should be recognized by the team otherwise it does not serve the purpose ... 
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And in a similar vein, making sure that you balance any criticsm / correction with praise / affirmation. And not just in the same breath, as in "you did A well but got B wrong". I mean make sure that you sometimes give wholly positive feedback; "Hey, you did a really good job with X". They'll be waiting for the "but..." but don't give it to them. If most of the time they like what they hear you saying, they'll accept the occasional negative stuff much more easily.
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I agree, 'subject of strong naming' is a very good thing...
... but if someone makes a religion out of it, I have a problem with that too.
I have a situation vice versa, but I think comparable:
I am in the process of handing everything over to my successor.
Well, from my point of view, he makes a religion out of naming.
He renames a large part without having the professional qualifications to do so. And it ends up being a lot of work for me to be able to explain the technical aspects further.
The only thing I ask is to be able to compromise  
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If you are bigger and stronger than the two, ignore them. It will eventually go away. If you are in a position to direct them, give them lots more work to keep them occupied.
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I assume your intention was to repsond to @RickZeeland and not to me 
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Yes. I'll be more careful next time.
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Not a problem at all 
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I think the younger colleague is physically stronger, but ignoring them is probably what they would like and would eventually cause a lot of problems. They really have no clue about how things have to be built and packaged on the builder and think everything is delivered "automagically". Directing them is not an option as they clearly won't accept that from me ...
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0x01AA wrote: I agree, 'subject of strong naming' is a very good thing...
... but if someone makes a religion out of it, I have a problem with that too.
I was going to say just that, just how dedicated are you to strong naming? You have to choose your battles, and when you make a religion out of something that others will never agree with, then the onus is on you to adapt to "the company standard" - whatever that may be - and not the other way around. Even if you know "your way" is better.
Just don't start that meeting by asking "spaces or tabs?"
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Quote: Just don't start that meeting by asking "spaces or tabs?"
But in my experience, exactly these kind of guys, really also pay attention on spaces and tabs. And more for them this is for them then 'clean code'  
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I think I need to clarify what the "strong naming issue" was about, the colleague in question said to me he intended to use strong naming while the company policy was to never use strong naming.
Sadly it was all a misunderstanding as he really had no idea what strong naming was, he just meant passing variables to methods with names in a certain format.
When I tried to explain to him what strong naming really meant, he took that very badly.
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If you are not responsible for their performance then go limp on them, no discussion, no pointing out their errors and no responding to anything but professional and work related discussions. Become the consummate professional, totally focussed on your performance.
Work places are not necessarily a social environment.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -
RAH
I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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Thanks for your advice, but that's not really how I want to work, but I can use it as a last resort of course ...
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You might want to include an impartial 4th (in this case) party. Someone who can control the meeting and keep everything on track so it doesn't degenerate into shouting, name calling, and fisticuffs.
If your company has HR they might be able to get that impartial party.
I’ve given up trying to be calm. However, I am open to feeling slightly less agitated.
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Thanks for the suggestion, but I think that will not be necessary, the younger colleague already apologized via Whatsapp and showed a positive attitude. Tomorrow I will have a chat with the older colleague.
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Well that's good. But still, if you think the chat with the older person might become contentious. . ..
I’ve given up trying to be calm. However, I am open to feeling slightly less agitated.
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I had a talk with the older colleague, apologized if I had treated him unfair, and the air is cleared now luckily.
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Oh man, that's too bad. Kinda was hoping for a ThunderDome moment.
Two men enter, one man leaves.
I’ve given up trying to be calm. However, I am open to feeling slightly less agitated.
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