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dandy72 wrote: (clearly, you can tell I'm not married and have not gone through those proceedings...)
Nor am I. I value my mental health.
Quote: What have I missed? This is all your stuff you've already paid for.
Of course that's a ridiculous plan, but when you are married you have to live with such drama anyway, even if you are a saint and did not do anything at all. So why not have a little fun and actually be guilty?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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If you're ever in Stamford, Connecticut then you can hang outside of the Jerry Springer show. It would be like Black Friday.
Jeremy Falcon
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my money is on the battery...
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -
RAH
I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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Yep, just what I was going to post.
I'm not sure how many cookies it makes to be happy, but so far it's not 27.
JaxCoder.com
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This is why you need the extended battery 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Still not enough battery.
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So, I'm about to release a new website. Over the past few years I've gotten used to using polyfills to handle older browsers like IE11 for public sites, but the more and more polyfills I tack on to a site for compatiablity the slower IE11 is running. Yes, it supports flexbox and also a basic CSS grid, so I can get IE11 to work-ish if I need to. My question is though, how many of y'all are still targeting IE11 for publicly accessible sites? I've made this site work in IE11, but still...
The latest stats I've seen suggest IE is still used for approximately 6% of desktop traffic and about 3% of all web traffic (if you combine desktop and mobile). But is making your site bloated for 3% of people really worth it... I used to think so, but with WASM down the road, etc. I mean for real... it's time IE died.
What do y'all think?
Jeremy Falcon
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Do not support IE - if you will all problems will land on your desk, as MS does not support it anymore...
"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012
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Starting to believe it. I'd love to know more about that 6% demographic. I'm using netmarketshare.com for the info, but it only tells you so much.
Jeremy Falcon
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Microsoft outright said IE was a compatibility solution and is legacy code.
We no longer support IE. If it works, great! If it doesn't work, we'll take a peek and see if there's an easy fix, and if so, great! But otherwise: move on.
Enabling users to continue using software that holds back the industry is bad for everyone.
(and great to hear from you again, Jeremy!)
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Agreed on all points 100% man. If this site wasn't a pay, for-profit site... I'd dump it like right now. There's that crazy part of me I can't let go of that says... what about that 3%. lol This will be the last site I make that supports it though... ever. Even Bootstrap 5 is dropping in-built support for it, it needs to die. Not sure if I should say this publicly, but I just did a contract for Amex and they still wanted a in-house product to support IE11... like internal here... not public.
What's the stats like for CP? I'd reckon most of us devs have dumped it along time ago, so like 0.000001% I'd bet.
Chris Maunder wrote: and great to hear from you again, Jeremy!
Likewise. How's the kids? Still on a Mac running Windows?
Jeremy Falcon
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I actually switched to a Dell! For about 3 months. And hated it with a dark, fierce, unhealthy passion.
I'm back on a Mac.
My biggest issue (and to ensure this thread is now fully off topic) is we're still on WebForms, which .NET Core doesn't support, so I can't easily just switch to VS for Mac or VS Code.
Know anyone who would love nothing better than to convert a WebForms site with roughly 300 web controls over to something better? Blazor and .NET 5? I mean: how hard could it be, really? 
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: I'm back on a Mac.
The irony here is... I'm the Mac fanboy but yet I'm on a PC. What is this world coming to? You hear about Apple Silicon? They're switching back to RISC (via ARM this time) processors like in the olden days. Except now Windows will still run on ARM so we're still good on the dual boot front. Never thought we'd see the day.
Chris Maunder wrote: Know anyone who would love nothing better than to convert a WebForms site with roughly 300 web controls over to something better? Blazor and .NET 5? I mean: how hard could it be, really?
Hah... sure man. Just ask any rookie PM... all you need to do is press that shiny magic button to fix everything. That's what the sales pitch said. 
Jeremy Falcon
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Last I heard was no more bootcamp. Craig Federighi said pure virtualization is the path forward from here on in. "These hypervisors can be very efficient, so the need to direct boot shouldn’t really be the concern.”
If they can truly make virtual Windows as fast as native then that's a huge win.
If.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: If.
Dun dun dun. 
Jeremy Falcon
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You do have an advantage if you do support IE, and that is that you are more likely to get that business since others may not be supporting that browser. And there is also how much will it impact you to include ie support. It if is easy, just as well support IE. Depends on the tools you are using too.
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Agreed. The biggest impact I'll have is JS code that's a bit bloated. It's not the end of the world, but say for instance... I use Babel a lot a lot. It runs and transpiles my TS and ESNext back down to ES5. For instance, to get something like a default parameter in IE11...
function test(x = "hello") {
}
Would end up like this...
function test(x) {
var x = arguments.length > 0 && arguments[0] !== undefined ? arguments[0] : "hello";
}
It's not the end of the world, but the more you do that and more stuff ads up. So, the site will be a bit slower for everyone because of IE... that 3% who won't upgrade.
Jeremy Falcon
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40% of our customers are still on different versions of IE. They're a slow moving bunch. Apparently the average age of their computers are 7 years.
Luckily I don't do front end stuff.
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Do you mind saying what your target audience is? For me, this is a retail site... which means I don't think I can drop IE11... but I want to.
Jeremy Falcon
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Car retailers and workshops make up the bulk..
IT knowledge varies quite a bit I have to say. Half the customers are using the newest and best, and the other half buys a new computer when the old one breaks.
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Gotcha. I appreciate the info. I may just have to let it ride for a couple of years to figure out the stats for my customers then. Thanks.
Jeremy Falcon
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See it this way: every web site looking broken in IE11 is another nail in it's coffin. If it's a pain to support, help kill it.
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I really, really want to. It's already done for the most part (the site), but I do think this will be the last time I support it.
Jeremy Falcon
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The relevant statistic is not the percentage of people using IE11 on the 'net, but the percentage of people using IE11 that visit your site(s). How about maintaining counter for the different browsers used to visit your site, and seeing whether IE11 is worth the effort to support?
On future professional (== for pay) projects, I would quote two prices - one not including IE11 support, and one including it. I would also give the prospective client the latest IE11 usage statistics, and let them decide whether it is worth it.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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