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0x01AA wrote: I see, sooner or later I have to accept, that my browser becomes my OS  ... 
I've been hearing that nonsense for over 10 years.
I still don't see anyone starting VS or WarCraft in a browser. I've seen no database-server that runs in a browser. I have not seen a single device-driver for a browser.
It's similar to the cloud and IoT-craze. It's nonsense without argumentation.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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With the right plugins, Visual Studio Code is nearly there in terms of being an IDE.
Warcraft in the browser would be easily doable with WebGL, and since Unity offers an HTML5 compile target, game developers wouldn't even need to do any special work to make an in-browser version of their game available.
All of the browsers have indexedDB built in, now. People have compiled SQLite to WebAssembly to make it run in the browser. It's not a database server, I know. But I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen in the near future.
The browser doesn't literally need to be an OS to effectively serve as someone's operating system. For a lot of people I know, everything they need to do in the course of a work day can be accomplished through a browser. Effectively, the web is their OS and the browser is the client via which they access it.
As a developer, I used to think it would never be possible to do all of my work via a browser. But then I see things like StackBlitz. Sure, that's only useful for certain types of dev work. Right now, anyway. I'm interested to see where all of this goes in the future.
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Ryan Peden wrote: Warcraft in the browser would be easily doable with WebGL, and since Unity offers an HTML5 compile target, game developers wouldn't even need to do any special work to make an in-browser version of their game available.
While graphics are available, a browser does (still) not allow multiple threads, and as such, is rather very limited in processing. Meaning a game that requires a lot of communication and immediate feedback will not be running in a browser.
Ryan Peden wrote: All of the browsers have indexedDB built in, now. People have compiled SQLite to WebAssembly to make it run in the browser. It's not a database server, I know. But I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen in the near future.
A database-server in a browser doesn't even make sense
Ryan Peden wrote: The browser doesn't literally need to be an OS to effectively serve as someone's operating system.
If it doesn't, it is not an OS; it is literally just your worksurface, and while most people do not need more than what is running in their browser, their worksurface is not going to replace any OS any time soon. It's a bit simplistic to do as if they are interchangeable.
Ryan Peden wrote: Effectively, the web is their OS and the browser is the client via which they access it.
No, it isn't; they still need an OS to run their browser, they still need an OS to control attached devices.
To give you an analogy; if you only use Calc.exe on Win95, you still can't claim that Calc.exe is your OS.
Ryan Peden wrote: As a developer, I used to think it would never be possible to do all of my work via a browser. But then I see things like StackBlitz. Sure, that's only useful for certain types of dev work. Right now, anyway. I'm interested to see where all of this goes in the future.
Next to being possible, there's also the question on whether it is desirable 
In the future, security will become more of an issue, and lare parts of the internet may become temporarily unavailable. Call it exciting times.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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A database server in a web browser doesn't have to make sense for people to try to do it! 
I think we mostly agree. A browser isn't an OS, I just meant that some people can treat it like their OS because they never need to do anything outside of it.
Multiple threads are kind of available to web apps via web workers, though in practice it works more like starting multiple processes and passing messages between them. WebAssembly will end up with multithreading support sooner or later, which will be interesting.
I don't think it's even fair to call browsers 'browsers' anymore. They're more like a complex system of interlocking parts that just happen to have a web page renderer attached. If you load a URL and all it does it download a wasm binary blob and a bunch of graphics assets to run a game, you're not really browsing the web in any meaningful sense. Maybe we need a better name than 'web browser' to describe it, but attempts to think of a better name have thus far come up blank. 
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Ryan Peden wrote: I just meant that some people can treat it like their OS because they never need to do anything outside of it.
People can treat their smartphone like a computer, because they do not need anything outside of it. Still, I don't see me launch Visual Studio on my smartphone.
Ryan Peden wrote: Multiple threads are kind of available to web apps via web workers, though in practice it works more like starting multiple processes and passing messages between them. WebAssembly will end up with multithreading support sooner or later, which will be interesting.
The browser will always have to share resources with other applications and services running, limiting its resources.
Ryan Peden wrote: I don't think it's even fair to call browsers 'browsers' anymore. They're more like a complex system of interlocking parts that just happen to have a web page renderer attached. If you load a URL and all it does it download a wasm binary blob and a bunch of graphics assets to run a game, you're not really browsing the web in any meaningful sense.
You are still downloading content from a (trusted) server and rendering that in a specialized application that runs in a limited environment (because the content cannot be trusted to touch anything outside the browser, like a local HD).
If trust goes down, people may switch to some other application that renders a UI on a client.
--edit
Corrected some spelling errors.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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MSBassSinger wrote: It does with WebAssembly.
Does it?
Documentation of said github wrote: An agent is the execution context for a WebAssembly module. For the web embedding, it is an ECMAScript agent. It is further extended to include a WebAssembly stack and evaluation context.
An agent is sometimes called a thread, as it is meant to match the behavior of the general computing concept of threads.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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I gave an impromptu demo of my MVC project tamplate, and in the process discovered a couple of very minor things I didn't think of, but the dev I showed it to really liked it. They said it looked more polished and slick than the "old app", and I reminded them that the old app was 12 years old and had never had a major facelift, so it wasn't necessarily less polished, it was simply old tech using old ideas.
The only problem I can foresee is the strategy I'm going to suggest regarding connecting the new code to the existing databases. EF presents some challenges that I'm sure they will balk at, but that comes with the territory. Moving old apps' content to the new app should be a relative no-brainer, and if they want to take the (unadvised) shorcut, they can pretty much just copy paste the old javascript and keep on keeping on. I choose the higher path of all new code, and using as little javascript as possible.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Keep pushing, Sisyphus, keep pushing.
Seriously, I wish you well in this endeavor.
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Another guy in the group wants to see it.
I added database-driven menus (with endless submenu support) to it at lunch today. They don't have to do anything but populate the database, and I might even write them an app that automatically populates the database based on their menu design.
Ya see, this is what I was talking about a few weeks ago when I mentioned the lack of drive and initiative. They're happy with the status quo because it's less work. What they don't seem to realize (yet) is that my "new way" will mean they don't have to work as hard at maintenance. On the other hand, maybe they see the maintenance headaches as a form of job security.
It is a DoD shop, so I may have hit on something there.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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... the next Star Wars movie[^]
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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ISWYDT
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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There is no try. Just sleep.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Judge me by my snoring, you do?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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Now they only need to start making movies that don't induce said napping...
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Is being environmental thinking you are a tree?
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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you mean it's not putting everything into folders that start with "My "?
Message Signature
(Click to edit ->)
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All of mine have been renamed to throw the NSA off the scent: "Her Documents", "Her Videos", Her Music", and so on.
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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But will it throw GCHQ off the scent? They know it's really ewe. 
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Should do, "Her Pictures" is full of Ram Pr0n to confuse 'em.
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote: Ram Pr0n
Goat yoga again???
Socialism is the Axe Body Spray of political ideologies: It never does what it claims to do, but people too young to know better keep buying it anyway. (Glenn Reynolds)
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I thought being environmental was about having a good Path.
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An eightfold one?
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Have you noticed that groups of Irishmen are often in trees?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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That leaves us looking for the root of problems. Fertile ground for thing's weed post in the SoapBox.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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