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Worked right out of the box for me ... I trust you remembered to add the colon at the end of your if, else, elif, while, etc. statements.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote: it does all the spacing for you
And reveal all the passwords you're trying to enter
And fight with matplotlib over cpu time
I can't count the number of ppl not believing me when I told them that IDLE was causing their problems.
I even made some relaunch code, just to make my Python scripts escape from IDLE's claws  
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No, never seen any of those, not had any problem with IDLE. And I don't quite see how it can reveal your passwords. Maybe you are doing something wrong.
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I am not going to discuss the details because this is the Lounge. I don't like IDLE because it changes the behavior of the language; and with a few tweaks, Notepad++ does everything I want.
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Martijn Smitshoek wrote: I don't like IDLE because it changes the behavior of the language
How exactly does it do that?
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try in IDLE:
import getpass
getpass.getpass() then type something.
Not very useful.
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Quote: Warning (from warnings module):
File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Python_36\lib\getpass.py", line 100
return fallback_getpass(prompt, stream)
GetPassWarning: Can not control echo on the terminal.
Warning: Password input may be echoed.
Password:
Looks reasonable to me.
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Life would be boring without a little evil. 
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It's very important to set your editor for "convert tabs to spaces" or whatever the setting is for your editor so you don't accidentally mix the two.
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Yeah! Who cares about whitespace and labels in Assembly!
... such stuff as dreams are made on
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Thanks for bringing this up ... my impression was exactly the same a few years ago when I tried to learn Python "for fun" (having C++/C# background). Luckily I did not need it for a project so I comfortably  have given up ... Perhaps Python is meant for people without programming background ... 
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No, Python is meant for people who want to get stuff done without having to debate brace layout and other trivialities. It's quicker to get simple stuff done than C/C++ (for one, you don't have to recompile). It can be extended with C/C++ if you think you have a performance need.
If you think Python is for non-programmers, you may be disappointed to find that it's exactly for you.
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I don't want to exaggerate, but we both probably agree that syntax is important, as it helps our brain to understand (quicker or slower ) what we are doing ... So, Glenn is quite right in his remarks. But of course as you say there are qualities in Python, and I would also add that it is in top 5 in the TIOBE list "as we speak". Perhaps I will give Python another try ... ,
BR
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It takes a bit of getting used to. Then after a while, it's like your eyes are opened -- if whitespace is the block delimiter, there can no longer be wars about where to put those braces. There can no longer be wars about indentation levels. All code in a codebase becomes slightly more unified and people can focus on solving problems -- which Python does extremely well -- instead of trying to assert some rule they had hammered into them at some previous point in their life.
As an exercise, try open up other people's Python. Go have a look at software written in Python which is installed on, say, many Linux boxes. Go learn the "Pythonic" way to do things (there are language features which make the structure easier to conform to and which help to unify the flow of process).
Now, with your eyes opened, go back to C++, Javascript, C#, wherever. And recognise the burden that Python took from you.
I'm not pulling this out of my ass. Python is only one of about 20 languages I've coded in, with varying degrees of proficiency and utility. But I still recommend Python as the ideal learner language because:
- it reads well (easy to understand what you or someone else wrote)
- the language enforces a reasonable style
- it's easy to get simple things done
- it doesn't run out of steam when you no longer wish to just get simple things done (it's powerful in itself and there are myriad free libraries out there which are easy to install and consume)
- it runs just about everywhere
- there are a mad number of good, free (and non-free) editors / IDEs for it (check out PyCharm Edu if you want a good editor and a tutor)
- SNAKE!
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glennPattonWork wrote: Winge mode on.
You forgot to turn winge mode off again...
My plan is to live forever ... so far so good
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Ah, how right you are: Winge mode off.
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If formatting is your biggest complaint, you're blaming your tools for your inadequacy.
I use Eclipse which automatically converts tabs to spaces, and yes a macro in Notepad ++ to trim trailing white space, convert tabs to space and save.
Stop whining and learn the language.
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Way too many languages designed by way too many Bjarne Stroustrup wannabe's (but without the skill)
We need a massive cull of languages and there should be no space for ones like Python.....
Computer languages are becoming like normal language, way too many and defended on the most irrational grounds and too the death. Like welsh - its only real use is to confuse tourists and make very long road signs
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What are you talking about? We need more PHPs and Javascripts. We need more Pythons, but only if they come in several incompatible versions. What's all this talk about noise, productivity, reinventing the wheel again and again, or not fighting your language or IDE? "Just shut up and learn the language" (quote in this very topic).
BTW, /s of course. Long live C++ and C#.
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Although I do feel sorry for those poor soles who use languages where you can't have the fun of locating a random memory leak, no wonder modern software engineers take up extreme sports like rubber free bungee jumping.
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Not on embedded devices!
But for desktop stuff with C++, yeah, you have maintain discipline with your allocations and destructors.
Quote: modern software engineers
Those don't exist anymore. Everything is web or middle-ware, nowadays. Didn't you get the memo? Desktop software is dead, Google says so! (never-mind the fact they have a competing OS which only runs sh*tty web apps, or the vested interest in keeping everything on the web so they can snoop and sell data).
You'll take my native software development out of my cold dying hands, even if I have to code everything myself. Thank god for UWP ease of development, I can whip out a working app in half an hour.
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Use PyCharm as IDE for Python.
But if you want curly braces then switch to Perl. 
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Use IDLE for Python programs. Much better than Notepad+++ and it helps resolve the tab issue.
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