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Quote: Normal internet support is laughable and best effort.
I suppose some government entity (like Telkom?) has a state controlled monopoly over the Internet service. That will explain your remark! 
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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Mostly copper backend yes. As fibre becomes more prevalent and other meduims that may change but basic internet is always deemed a best effort service, unless you pay for a mpls level support or run it through such a pipe.
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I haven't upgraded to VS 2017 yet as I have hear too many issues with it. As a result I am still using VS 2015 with no issues at all.
I may skip 2017 altogether and wait until the next release, which is what I have done in the past.
Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer
Black Falcon Software, Inc.
blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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It's even worse than you think. VS 2017 gets updated frequently and those updates become additional 40GB downloads when you try to use off-line installation.
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Deepak Vasudevan wrote: How many have moved or upgraded to VS 2017? What are your experiences?
I tried the preview, then went to the release. I have not had problems with it. My biggest complaint is that Xamarin.Forms 3.0 is not released yet.
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After writing my book, Programming Windows 10 Via UWP (all chapters are here on CP -- Programming Windows 10 Desktop: UWP Focus (15 of 15)[^] ) I thought it might be nice to write a book on Xamarin since we __should__ be able to leverage the XAML knowledge we gained in order to build cross-platform apps.
You guessed it: It ain't that easy. It isn't even very clear.
Visual Studio Cross-Platform Project Template
So if you are using Visual Studio 2017 and you start up the Xamarin Cross-Platform project template you will see the following dialog pop up to help you choose how your project will be created:
http://raddev.us/images/cp/xamNativeOption.png[^]
If you choose that option, Visual Studio requires you to create the UI for each of your platforms separately. So, basically that option means that all you are doing is managing your three separate projects (iOS, Android, UWP) in Visual Studio. Yes, you gain a bit of benefit since you can switch between each, but there's no re-use on the UI as you would hope.
?The Benefit?
The benefit is that Microsoft then owns your code because it is wrapped up in Visual Studio. 
Note: The sarcasm font was used on that previous sentence. 
I only tried the Native option because I found that building the "common" XAML wasn't working when I chose the Xamarin.Forms project and I was testing it out.
The Marketing Hype Continues
Microsoft rules all platforms with Visual Studio!!!!  Not so much, yet.
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I really must write a tutorial on how to do start off with Xamarin Forms. It's not that difficult.
This space for rent
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Hmm....well, you're right it's not that difficult.
But, it ain't that easy either. 
Here's what I mean.
1. My Android emulator didn't want to run.
That meant I couldn't run the Android version easily. Well, I'm a native Android dev so I knew why it didn't want to run. I am running VSTudio 2017 on a VM and you have to run an "special" version of the Android emulator (Is it possible to run Android Device Emulator (via Android Studio 2) on VMWare? - Stack Overflow - I originally asked this and solved it[^]) to get it to run on a VM. It's a hack!!
Also, first time start, I have found android emulator has set the files to read-only and the Emulator hangs. I go to location of the emulator image and right-click and change all files to not read-only and then the emulator will start. Much craziness.
2. running the iOS app
Even more difficult. I had a difficult time connecting to my iMac and getting it to deploy to my emulator. And if someone doesn't have a Mac, they are out of luck. This ain't no panacea, this here VSTudio.
3. Yes, you are correct, running the XAML UWP version is very easy.
But I want the WORLD!!
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if someone doesn't have a Mac, they are out of luck
Don't go complaining to Microsoft about that. My understanding is that's a restriction imposed by Apple. iOS apps can only be signed on Macs. Remember, once Jobs turned his back on the Apple-II concept and sent Apple down the road of closed-architecture, Apple users have been far more captured than Microsoft users.
I was listening to an electrical contractor complain the other day about how Apple's home stuff is "unique" and makes life miserable when it comes to flexibility on what can be used in an overall home system.
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kburgoyne1 wrote: Don't go complaining to Microsoft about that
You are correct. I wasn't really complaining about it as much as just sighing over it. Android is so nice because I can develop a native (or Xamarin) app and instantly try it out on my real phone. iOS is quite a bit more hoops to jump through.
kburgoyne1 wrote: Apple users have been far more captured than Microsoft users.
You are right about that for sure.
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Does anyone know where I can get the VS2013 Update 5 iso? I went to the Microsoft page and when I went to "older versions", it said it couldn't find any files to download.
I can't "upgrade" visual studio because I'm on a DoD system and don't have permissions to install anything, and besides, newer versions of the compiler haven't been "approved" for installation yet.
The system admin said if I could find the ISO, he'd install it.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Yeah, it takes me here :Visual Studio Team Services | Sign In[^]
Which is also the same page that is displayed with I go to the normal VS page.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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And? You can not login?
Which version do you need? I may download for you and share via Google Drive...
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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I checked out the VS2017 comparison of edition, and the ONLY difference between the community edition (free) and the pro edition ($465) is the addition of "CodeLens" in the pro edition. Every other feature is identical to the community edition.
Seriously? One added feature for $465? That certainly is a compelling reason to pay money for the product...
They must not want people to buy the Pro version because the enterprise version is $600 and includes EVERYTHING. Given it's 1-2 year support lifespan, $600 is a bit much to pay.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Community is for small businesses, open source developers, and hobby coders. Once your product takes off and you start making bank and get a bigger team, you have to use pro
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That and the license restrictions of only being free for a team of 5 or less or companies under a certain annual turnover.
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I'm only me, and this would be for home use. To be honest, I've never been a fan of Microsoft's pricing structure - for any of their software...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Money wasted...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Yeah, after going back and looking at the comparison I see that, as you mentioned, CodeLens is really the only difference. I will be canceling my monthly subscription and going to Community Edition. I have only had it for a few months now, so I the $$ damage is minimal. I'm actually super glad you posted this, and very ticked off at Microsoft for this.
I did read that the Pro has to be used by companies meeting certain legal requirements - this does not extend to individual users or teams <= 5 users, obviously.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: One added feature for $465?
And the irony of that is I turn off code lens. It's distracting and 99% of the time, useless. But that's me.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Try this: Click
Works for me 
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I already tried that site - it's blocked by our IT idiots. I'll have to wait until I get home to check it out.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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