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Brent Jenkins wrote: The modern day world doesn't work like that though.. nobody is allowed to have opinions that differ from the mainstream.
And conversely, in many quarters, no-one's allowed to have opinions that are mainstream.
History is written by the winners and yesterday's alternative has a tendency to become tomorrow's tyranny.
It's a constant of all history, that all power groups will:
a) Exaggerate and/or invent their own achievements.
b) Vilify their rivals at every available opportunity.
c) Attempt to pervert language to their own ends.
d) Hide behind some nebulous concept (a supernatural entity, a flag or any sort of -ism that can be claimed to be self-evident).
e) Accuse anyone who doesn't accept that self-evident "truth" of apostasy.
Slogans aren't solutions.
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Brent Jenkins wrote: nobody is allowed to have opinions that differ from the mainstream.
Especially "libtards", apparently.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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It's very easy to throw any names around (we see it in the UK with our "elderly, racist, bigoted, little Englander, uneducated right-wing extremist" voters who chose to leave the EU).. 
It's also very easy for the mainstream media to call any news they don't want people to hear or that doesn't fit in with their agendas "fake news" (or my personal favourite right now, "post-truth", as if - by some divine miracle - they are the source of "truth" and anyone who disagrees is a liar).
Unfortunately, this kind of divisiveness can only ultimately lead to violence.
Ah, I see you have the machine that goes ping. This is my favorite. You see we lease it back from the company we sold it to and that way it comes under the monthly current budget and not the capital account.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Brent Jenkins wrote: It's very easy to throw any names around (we see it in the UK with our "elderly, racist, bigoted, little Englander, uneducated right-wing extremist" voters who chose to leave the EU)..
I agree and that applies equally to terms like "Bremoaner", "Libtard", "Liberal Elite" etc. hurled so creatively in the other direction. Don't mistake alt-PC for non-PC, they're two very, very different things. Alt-PC is just a right-wing implementation of PC whereas non-PC is a refusal to engage in it:
PC - You can't express a negative emotion towards him! He's physically impaired!
Alt-PC - I'll yell at all the goddamn cripples I want to!
Non-PC - Why should I treat him any differently to anyone else? I called him a twat because he was being one.
Personally, I'm very much in the non-PC camp yet I'm frequently accused (wrongly and offensively) by the Alt-PC mob of being in the PC brigade simply because I'm not in the Alt-PC mob (that's precisely the sort of crap that happens when people decide what other people think without bothering to ask them).
Brent Jenkins wrote: It's also very easy for the mainstream media to call any news they don't want people to hear or that doesn't fit in with their agendas "fake news" (or my personal favourite right now, "post-truth", as if - by some divine miracle - they are the source of "truth" and anyone who disagrees is a liar).
That's precisely what the "alternative" media does with great relish. In fact, that's it's very raison d'etre.
Brent Jenkins wrote: Unfortunately, this kind of divisiveness can only ultimately lead to violence.
Let us hope not. At the very least we should seek to disassociate from all of those who advocate it, regardless of whether or not we see them as being on "our" side of the fence.
Slogans aren't solutions.
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PeejayAdams wrote: Let us hope not. At the very least we should seek to disassociate from all of those who advocate it, regardless of whether or not we see them as being on "our" side of the fence.
I hope not too, but it always happens when one group feels persecuted or pushed into a corner.
As history has proven time and time again (thank goodness we don't teach history any more in schools!) people will fight for what they believe in if they feel they have no other choice. People in the UK feel that their lifestyle, culture and identity is constantly under attack.. it can't go on forever.
Ah, I see you have the machine that goes ping. This is my favorite. You see we lease it back from the company we sold it to and that way it comes under the monthly current budget and not the capital account.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Brent Jenkins wrote: People in the UK feel that their lifestyle, culture and identity is constantly under attack.. it can't go on forever.
All generalisations are dangerous.
As a white, working-class, middle-aged male - I seem to be a prime candidate to feel this alienation that we're all meant to be feeling, but I don't feel that at all.
I'm constantly told by The Daily Mail that I'm not allowed to fly my own flag, yet the pub on the street corner flies a huge Union Flag and the nearby church proudly flies the flag of St. George. Several cars and houses display one or the other. I wear a George cross on my lapel. The Daily Mail might assure me that this cannot be the case, but it is!
I'm an English bloke, I do English things - I eat English food, I drink English beer in English pubs, dress in an English style and generally wander about England being very English. Nobody has ever tried to kibosh that. Nobody has ever tapped me on the shoulder and said "Oi! Stop being so English while you're in England." I've never had a letter of Johnny Brussels telling me to tone down on the Englishness a little. I've never being banged up by the thought police for liking fish and chips and football.
So much of this perceived oppression is in the imagination of journalists.
Slogans aren't solutions.
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It depends on where you live and where you come from. Back where I grew up in North North Wales, there's a lot of unemployed people struggling to cope with the influx of Polish workers. I don't have anything against anyone, but when a street in Wales fills up with Polish shops and cafes and the locals can't understand what people on the street are saying, you can see how resentment builds up. Multiply this across the country and we've got a real problem simmering away here (as much as the media may want to place all the blame on "racist" Brits).
Working closer to London, there is a real lack of any identity anywhere. Northern England has much stronger feelings than the South for sure.
PeejayAdams wrote: I'm an English bloke, I do English things - I eat English food, I drink English beer in English pubs, dress in an English style and generally wander about England being very English.
I get what you're saying but sometimes it's more subtle than that. What about when your area changes to a majority non-drinking community? Near where I live, there are areas where you'll struggle to find an operating pub. They're either shut down and rotting to bits or converted for other uses. Even finding an English shop can be a challenge sometimes, and in other areas it just doesn't feel safe to walk down the street at night.
Ah, I see you have the machine that goes ping. This is my favorite. You see we lease it back from the company we sold it to and that way it comes under the monthly current budget and not the capital account.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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I live in Brum (also where I'm from). Yes, there are areas here that have become dominated by other cultures and that's not a good thing. There has been a definite tendency for our city council to house people according to ethnicity and that has been a large source of the problem rather than the immigrants themselves.
Multiculturalism per se is not a problem - this country is inherently multicultural and all the better for it. Where populations broadly reflect the cultural mix, it can be a huge positive; where they don't, it becomes highly problematic and that's something that really does need to be addressed.
Slogans aren't solutions.
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PeejayAdams wrote: Where populations broadly reflect the cultural mix, it can be a huge positive; where they don't, it becomes highly problematic and that's something that really does need to be addressed.
When people move somewhere, they instinctively seek out people like themselves (we are naturally attracted to those who look and act like us).
You can't blame people for doing it, but it can cause problems. It's the same with Brits who move to Spain and then set up little British "colonies" - why move to Spain if you're not going to adopt the Spanish culture? You can bet the locals don't appreciate it though.
Multiculturalism isn't practical. We have a set of laws, a culture and a way of life that people coming here need to adopt. If it's not for them, then perhaps this is the wrong choice of country. I'd expect to have to fit in with my adoptive country if I were to move abroad again myself. It's common sense.
Ah, I see you have the machine that goes ping. This is my favorite. You see we lease it back from the company we sold it to and that way it comes under the monthly current budget and not the capital account.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Brent Jenkins wrote: Multiculturalism isn't practical.
Even if we wind back a thousand years, we're a mix of Celt, Pict, Anglo-Saxon, Jute, Belgae, Dane, Norse, Roman and Christ knows what else. I'd suggest that proves that it does work if it's done properly.
Yes, people naturally do tend to cluster on arrival (there's a shop called Spainsbury's in Valencia - I kid you not) but that tends to be a transitory state. There are parts of this city that we're almost exclusively Irish when I was a kid and no longer are. Ultimately people either stay and integrate at which point the colony starts to disperse or they go back to wherever. It's not an overnight process but it happens over a generation or two.
I certainly would never argue against the "When in Rome ..." principal and I'd absolutely like to see far less official support for non-British languages. A mate of mine was moved to South Africa as a teenager, I asked him how he managed to get on with Afrikaans - which must be a hellishly difficult language for an Anglophone - and he said "as soon as I realised that they'd never speak to me in any other language, it was pretty easy because there was no other option."
Slogans aren't solutions.
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PeejayAdams wrote: Celt, Pict, Anglo-Saxon, Jute, Belgae, Dane, Norse, Roman
All had a common European heritage and the changes in culture were relatively small. Remember though that the Celts fought the Romans and the Saxons fought the Normans.. lessons from history and all that. 
PeejayAdams wrote: Ultimately people either stay and integrate at which point the colony starts to disperse or they go back to wherever. It's not an overnight process but it happens over a generation or two.
That's not the experience of many places in the UK where we now have multiple cultures and societies living alongside each other with varying languages, laws, rules and customs in each.
Ah, I see you have the machine that goes ping. This is my favorite. You see we lease it back from the company we sold it to and that way it comes under the monthly current budget and not the capital account.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Brent Jenkins wrote: I don't have anything against anyone, but when a street in Wales fills up with Polish shops and cafes and the locals can't understand what people on the street are saying, you can see how resentment builds up.
I'm sure that the Celts felt the same way when the Saxons showed up, and then there's how the Saxons felt when the Norse showed up, etc. Notice that the Welsh generally speak English now, cultural change has happened before hasn't it? And certainly that caused a lot of resentment, but the Wales of your youth is the product of such changes.
If you want to get rid of the Polish speakers, what about the English speakers? Get rid of them too for not being "Welsh" enough? How many would be left?
People tend to see the culture of their youth as the bedrock of traditional culture and feel that they are losing out when culture changes in their later years. This has always been the case, cultures are always in flux and shaped by external influences, the only static cultures are dead ones.
Your country is changing. It has always been changing, and it always will. But Wales is still Wales.
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StatementTerminator wrote: I'm sure that the Celts felt the same way when the Saxons showed up, and then there's how the Saxons felt when the Norse showed up, etc. Notice that the Welsh generally speak English now, cultural change has happened before hasn't it? And certainly that caused a lot of resentment, but the Wales of your youth is the product of such changes.
The difference here is in the numbers.. our population has increased by 10 million over the last 10 years or so - that a 20% increase (actually one of our largest supermarket chains has estimated our population has risen to over 80 million, an increase of 60%!!). We're also not living back in Roman times - and it's worth bearing in mind that the Saxons/Vikings/Norman "migrations" resulted in a lot of violence. Is that what we should "learn to live with" perhaps? That doesn't really bode well for those of us having this imposed on our families, does it?
StatementTerminator wrote: If you want to get rid of the Polish speakers, what about the English speakers? Get rid of them too for not being "Welsh" enough? How many would be left?
There are some in Wales that would go along with this. Back in the 80's we had trouble with a Welsh group called Meibion Glyndwr (sons of [Owain] Glyndwyr).. again, back to the violence.
Perhaps the takeway from this might be: uncontrolled migrations of huge numbers of people always ultimately leads to violence.
Ah, I see you have the machine that goes ping. This is my favorite. You see we lease it back from the company we sold it to and that way it comes under the monthly current budget and not the capital account.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Brent Jenkins wrote: BBC, I'm looking at you!
I've observed BBC leaving out parts of a news item to control the impression of the viewer. The streaming "EURONEWS" seems to select articles (about a certain region of the earth) that always have a spin to show one of the parties in a bad light (no matter who did what) and omit news that would make them look good.
But the biggest loudest screamers about fake news are its prime believers and creators.
And I saw a vehicle (yes, a pick-up) that had multiple stickers all over the tailgate proclaiming their obeisance to such pristine sources as infowars.com.
Some comments I made this year:
Unfortunately, for the vast majority, people know what they know only if it's what they want to know. - January 29 2016
A comment on the political decision making capabilites of the current generation: "Competent is Boring" - May 6 2016
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: But the biggest loudest screamers about fake news are its prime believers and creators.
That's always the way.
Anyone who knee-jerk accuses everyone else of doing something only thinks that way because it's what he would do.
My favourite example is conspiracy theorists, who always demand that secret meetings be held, to discuss what to do about conspiracies.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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The biggest government conspiracies of them all:
2 - Subsidizing the Aluminum industry with false stories about it's protective properties
1 - Creating a conspiracy to create conspiracy theories.
3 - Sneaky manipulation of ordered lists to cause confusion
5 - see (1)
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: 1 - Creating a conspiracy to create conspiracy theories.
As described by (wait for it..) the BBC.. 
Cambridge scientists consider fake news 'vaccine' - BBC News
Ah, I see you have the machine that goes ping. This is my favorite. You see we lease it back from the company we sold it to and that way it comes under the monthly current budget and not the capital account.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Presuming the article, itself, isn't fake news (gratuitous inclusion):
Their plan will end up in a zero-sum game as the fake-news designers can do all of the same things, get the same results, and ultimately, create what are effectively susceptibility-gene-pools of users hardened totally against any opposing views to those they've been given (and typically actually wanted).
The only solution to fake news is for people to stop being stupid - which is a different genetic issue than that metaphoric usage in the preceding paragraph. Here, even her at CP[^], there are any number of people with otherwise excellent analytical capabilities happy to suck up the pablum of deceit because it confirms their life-view.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: The only solution to fake news is for people to stop being stupid
The problem here is that our education system has been dumbed down and political correctness applied across the board. Nothing can be discussed or taught that may offend anyone (except white British male heterosexuals - all the world's problems are our fault!  ).
What we've got now is a nation of young adults who take clueless celebrities views of the world as the "truth" and have no idea of how to actually think through a problem themselves (especially when the obvious outcome is something that goes against their politically correct conditioning in school).
Ah, I see you have the machine that goes ping. This is my favorite. You see we lease it back from the company we sold it to and that way it comes under the monthly current budget and not the capital account.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Several problems with your interpretations:
The dumbing down, at least in the US, was started deliberately during the Reagan administration by his Secretary of Education, William Bennett. That was, in fact, why he was put into that office.
Calling things you don't like "Politically Correct" to disparage them is, is itself, in fact an identical concept to political correctness - joining a different pack and using their jargon. Same sh*t - same smell.
Now - the real problem is an attitude that stems to no small degree from an educational system that is run (to a very large extent) by former English teachers. Their world view does not include math or science to any reasonable extent. Teacher's salaries, compared to the private sector, really suck if you're an employable person (math, science, in particular). Analytical thinking is not taught because we're now in yet another generation of people who would rather pull out a calculator than do math, and have expanded upon it, to using their GPS travel guide rather then look at a map so they know where the hell they are, etc. etc. etc. Several generations of people who'd pay $100 for sneakers. This social conditioning was done NOT by the government, but by business. Real Cooked Food -> TV-Dinner -> Fast-food-drive-through.
Did you ever see the movie "Logan's Run" ? That's where we are headed, socially and intellectually. Dumb people are good for business. They upgrade their $600 phone for a new one every year; more often if they could.
Then, again, everyone in the hive cannot be the queen bee.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: The dumbing down, at least in the US, was started deliberately during the Reagan administration by his Secretary of Education, William Bennett. That was, in fact, why he was put into that office.
In the UK, it was started long ago too.. it's not a new thing.
W∴ Balboos wrote: Calling things you don't like "Politically Correct" to disparage them is, is itself, in fact an identical concept to political correctness - joining a different pack and using their jargon. Same sh*t - same smell.
I agree to a point. Political correctness is a something that has been openly promoted by the UK establishment (and led by government agencies). It's not a way to slander someone, it's a fact of life here. It may be different in the US.
W∴ Balboos wrote: Did you ever see the movie "Logan's Run" ? That's where we are headed, socially and intellectually. Dumb people are good for business. They upgrade their $600 phone for a new one every year; more often if they could.
One my favourite films. I doubt the future will be so pleasant (even if it was only for 30 years per person, there was at least some kind of civilisation in place). Things tend to decline rapidly and chaotically when they go.
Ah, I see you have the machine that goes ping. This is my favorite. You see we lease it back from the company we sold it to and that way it comes under the monthly current budget and not the capital account.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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You forgot the biggest one:
0 - getting people to believe that Hilton and Kardassian are talented
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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How do you know if the article is genuine? It could be fake news about fake news (meta fake news?).
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Would fake fake news not be real news again?
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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No. It's just a higher order of falsehood.
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
--Winston Churchill
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