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Intuit probably does more usability testing and customer analysis than any other software company. Scott Cook worked in PG I believe in the marketing side, and brought with him a intense focus on the customer.
Customers are involved in every stage. Developers listen in on support calls and watch users using the product at home.
My question: Is turbotax and quicken, for all that work, a usable product?
Thanks,
Wes
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I get the impression here that "usability testing" seems to happen after the product has been designed and implemented. Surely it's too late at this stage to redesign and rewrite the application if they find that it fails the usabiltiy test. Wouldn't it be just better to just have a good methodology for GUI design as part of the design process (i.e. GUI design guidelines)?
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I always suggest 'keep it simple' for GUI design, follow as much as possible with MS design guideline, because I want to make sure the GUI does not constraint class design and collaboration. Experience shown if one application is too concerntrate on GUI, it will make the logic code behind difficult to engineer and optimize. Speed and memory footprint remain the highest priority for us.
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Usability test (template functional in this case, not GUI or something else...) for C++ template is nearly impossible, due to the generic/compile time code generation...Usually we do stress (regression) test on usage pattern. In case you didn't know this, here's a very good source of C++ template development website:
http://synesis.com.au/stlsoft/
Please share it with your friends! 
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'nuf said.
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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Honestly, there is not a line item in the budget for testing! 
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This survey shows bitter truth - less than 25% of software by CPians
are properly tested 
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AntonS wrote:
less than 25% of software by CPians
are properly tested
How do you figure? What's proper testing?
I think there's a difference between testing and usability. Testing, for me, is getting rid of bugs. Usability is making the software easy to use. As a consultant taking manual processes and trying to automate/computerize them, sometimes the manual process does not translate well to a computer process without "retooling" the whole department workflow. Plus, a customer can tell me how they *think* it should work, but after implementation, I need several go-arounds with the people actually using the software to tune the UI and the workflow.
We use a qualified third party to conduct testing.. There is no such thing as a qualified third party because they wouldn't know how a specific customer's business works
In-house testing using a formal testing process. Out of the question. Such documents test for how things should work, not how work is actually done. For a new computer system, people don't have any good reference either for how things should be done. In fact, most of my clients don't have decent manual procedures, which is where I usually have to start!
In house informal (but reasonably throrough) testing. This is more where it's at, but "reasonably thorough" is still assumes some things that I can't assume in my business.
Random and unstructured usability testing. Basically, yes.
None. What our developers write is what our users get. Heck no. I'm a consultant. Fine tuning after the product is delivered helps the cash flow. I hate maintenance after a while, though.
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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I agree.
The bottom line is that the customers must be able to put our software to use in their work environments, and it must provide value to them. Our reputations and livelihood rest on us providing quality products, and that means it must do what we said it was going to do, it must not have ugly errors, and it must provide them value and be integrated into their workflow. Any of these that it doesn't provide are strikes against us as developers.
Testing, therefore, is to insure that the software works properly. Is there a written process for testing this? Not one that I have ever seen that works. Everything is too dynamic - the customer's business, the workflow, and the solution.
Who knows better than us how the software is to work and what it is to do for the customers? I don't have time to write that down ... I'm too busy testing it to make sure it works. It is, after all, my reputation that is on the line.
Dave
"You can say that again." -- Dept. of Redundancy Dept.
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If under term "usability" you meant only "easy to use" I take my words
back
Personally for me meaning of the word "usability" spread not only to "visual inteface", but much wider.
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I was a bit confused too, with the survey sub-text that reads as follows:
Writing an application is one thing, but making it easy to use is another.
Most of "easy to use" is in the user interface, at least for my client base.
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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Basicaly the hardware engineer and I have an informal meeting and discuse what needs to be accomplished and how it should work. Then I sit down, do some research (if needed), then write what I think will be the easiest application for the use. The manager (a.k.a. hardware engineer) interrupts my work and tries to get me to change thing. I may or may not agree to the changes and attempt to regain my train of thought. When it is relatively finished I create an install and he takes it and starts his testing and also passes a copy to the main technition (if it is some-thing he is going to have to use), so that he catch any bugs (or unexpected features). I continue may own testing on the various opering systems that I have in my office (Win2000, Win95, Win98, WinNT 4.0, WinXP). Then if it was orinaly written for a particular customer (who may or may not have had any input) we give it to them and get thier feed back. At this point if every thing is OK then I create a final installation and go back to updating, upgrading, fixing, or in general working on what ever work was interrupted by the new project.
I work for a hardware manufaturing company and write the firmware as well as various programs, for programing the hardware, interanl, and external use. Some software requires only one initial setup and then runs automaticaly. Other require that the user read the manual (some do not seem to know how to read).
Getting sales personal to get invalded with interface (usabiliy) design is like pulling teath.
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John R. Shaw wrote:
Getting sales personal to get invalded with interface (usabiliy) design is like pulling teath.
You have no idea how lucky you are!
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You have no idea how lucky you are!
Yes I do!
I also know that it would cost the company a lot more money to replace some one with my experence than they would want to pay. I have had 1 raise in the passed 10 years.
The main software that our company (and clients) use needs to be rewritten an brought up to date. I was not allowed to write the origanal source, because the owner of the company (tiawainese) thought it would be cheaper to higher some one in tiawan to write it. When we (I) kept rejecting it (do to testing failures) the code was finaly given to me and it took nine months to fix all (most) of the bugs. I untangle a little more of the mess every time they ask me to modify or add a new feature. The second most important piece of software was also written in tiawan (as a test/temp program). I was suppose to fix it so that a customer, which had already purchase the hardware, would have a way to program it until I wrote a comercial quality program. But that program became the program and all I was allowed to do is modify and add features, from then on.
I like this company.
I like my job.
I want take all that we have learned over the years and turn it into a great product, if they would just let me.
Trust in the code Luke. Yea right!
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You have no idea how luck you are!! Really!!
First of all, there is NO "tiawan"; I only know one place named: Taiwan. ( I am from there...)
And, as you (may) know, QUALITY == $$$. If your boss assign a project and expect the cost is less than US$XX. That's it. The "quality" depend on $$$. How can you expect a cheap-labor can give you 100% perfect quality. I guess you should/must talk to your boss. Assign project to you or me (a cheap-software-engineer, too.)![Rose | [Rose]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif)
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I origanly spelled it Taiwan but it didn't look right so I changed it.
Personaly I would prefer working with anouther programer. This one man show gets on my nearves some times. I was ask to do 3 different things to 3 different programs the moment a steped through the door today and then I was asked to do one more modification that has to be finished before I leave today.
As for not knowing how lucky I am:
Why do you think I am still working here?
It's the next best thing to being in business for your self.
Trust in the code Luke. Yea right!
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Ohh, that was your job and you are on your own (?) now. My bad. As you mentioned, assigned X tasks in one day and the extra/another one msy be done TODAY. What a cheaper-(not you)-BOSS who does not want to spend a little more $ on quality. Currently, I am assigned to maintain one lousy VBer's VB programs since I am the (only?)one who spend time on M$ stuff. (The official-computer-language is Apple's stuff.) We use VB because it's cheap and can be done very quick but this lousy VBer's programs drive me crazy because she doesn't have any idea about "computer langulage/programming".
However, I am saying that Quality == $$$, and $$$ == #ofworkingHours * #ofpeople.
If you are on your own, can I join you?
well, I just make a joke and wish life is better tomorrow. (Tomorrow is Saturday and I must work without pay... so sad..)
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The next survey is going to be "Does the 'other' text box in this survey like a search area?"
cheers,
Chris Maunder
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I prefer that matrix source code 
Regards
Thomas
Disclaimer:
Because of heavy processing requirements, we are currently using some of your unused brain capacity for backup processing. Please ignore any hallucinations, voices or unusual dreams you may experience. Please avoid concentration-intensive tasks until further notice. Thank you.
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 I was thinking along the same lines.
Searching the web without Google is like straining sewage with your teeth.
Userfriendly, 2003/06/07
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Chris Maunder wrote:
The next survey is going to be "Does the 'other' text box in this survey like a search area?"
Why blame the users when a poor GUI implementation is effectively causing the problem? 
The 'Other' entry box should not be enabled unless the 'Other' radio button is selected which would prevent 90% of the search attempts using the survey area.
In addition, the position of the actual search on the main page seems to be far from optimal. It's placed right under the CP logo and pretty close to the advertising bar area - something that most of the people got used to completely ignore by now. Perhaps moving it to a more exposed place would help to eliminate mistakes.
<center> </center>
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Sadly, i doubt there's anything you can do to the CP interface that'll help the guy who mistook the 'other' text box for a... RPN calculator?!?
Shog9
drifting along
with the tumbling tumbleweeds...
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I dare someone at Microsoft to look me in the eye and tell me they have done recent usability testing for Office and comprehensively acted on it. Yes, Microsoft have a whole site devoted to their testing and how it makes their products desirable and easy to use, but either:- They are ignoring what the testers are saying and just listening to the things that justify decisions already made, or
- The testers were all Mac and FreeBDS users who are messing with Microsoft's headMaybe it's the link between the usability labs and the guys writing the code. Maybe the issues are posted but the person ticking them off the list is looking at the wrong list (it's happened before). I dunno.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote:
I dare someone at Microsoft to look me in the eye and tell me they have done recent usability testing for Office and comprehensively acted on it.
As a comparison, have you tried using Lotus Notes?
We've been 'migrated' to it at work; Outlook (which we used previously) now seems like some sort of usability nirvana compared with the twisted nightmare that is Notes.
(needed: a smiley for the tearing of hair from head!)
Andy Hassall (andy@andyh.co.uk)
Space - disk usage analysis tool
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