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Have to agree, Italy drove me crazy. Beautiful, great food, but the people are ridiculous. And don't get me started on the driving. For all the Swiss are a bit distant and like their space, they are at least mannerly. Oh, and competent.
"This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedivere. Explain to me again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes"
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I don't know which city you drove in but when I went in central Italy (much arretrated with respect to the North) I risked my life at least every 5 minutes. Precedence rules? Speed limits? Dangerous overtakes? Wrong lane? Those were the least dangerous moments.
In Turin or Milan people actually drive better but the moment you get outside the city proper you're in constant danger.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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The worst thing that happened in italy to me, several times, was while shopping when people randomly walk in front of you stopping in the middle of the corridor blocking everything 
Rules for the FOSW ![ ^]
if(this.signature != "")
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}
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Always. And people standing still in the doorways / at the end of stairs. Sadly my girlfriend does that too... it's 10 years of me moving her from the middle of the passageways and being eaten alive afterwards.
And people not keeping the right on corridors and stairs, so if you're in a hurry you're stuck and will always be berated with a contemptuous "run, run..." as if you're an idiot to run, just take it easy, why would you run, for work? Pffft, you don't know how to live [... at the expense of the State and dignity, I might add]. Or being insulted because they have the right to stand still... they have, but out of the way. In fact since a couple of years I started shoving people away, there's no use in talking to an Italian.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
modified 11-Oct-16 10:24am.
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Next year i'll have that again when we go to italy to spend our holidays. But it's okay if it's only for 2 weeks 
den2k88 wrote: there's no use in talking to an Italian.
GCS d--- s-/+
I don't understand them at all 
Rules for the FOSW ![ ^]
if(this.signature != "")
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}
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Italians DO IT better
All the rest doesn't count
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You're right, I'm just trying to find what is "IT". Due exception with food, probably the only good thing we have. and until some years ago worker rights, then Fornero arrived and elephanted us all.
No services, no politeness, no honesty, no pay, no rights. Transportation by public service is possibleonly in big cities with absurd delays and waiting times, transportation by car is extremely costly and the roads aren't maintained. National health service squanders money on acupuncture and has waiting times for urgent life-saving operation of 15+ months.
Crime is uncontrolled and the Police can't act, can't defend from assault and has no money for the gasoline so they can't patrol... despite us having TWO distinct Police corps + one dedicated mainly to financial felonies. If you defend your life in your home you get prosecuted and have to pay reparations to the assailant or its family. Clandestine immigration is not checked so we have thousand of nameless people in every city who often are criminals or turn to crime after having 0 possibilities (despite us natives having 0 possibilities either).
Engineers are paid peanuts for gold, public offices are corrupt and inefficient, our laws are as convolutd as possible in order to give as many getaways as possible to rich people, organized crime controls everything and it isn't rooted out.
We do IT better, just I still don't know WHAT. Except food. Eat to forget?
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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Hate to say this mate, but you re biting the hand that fed you, and it is never a good thing.
I understand you re now living somewhere else, and you probably feel better, more secure, well paid.
But don't spit onto a whole country , because there are still good people living, working and fighting for it in there.
And whatever you may like it or not, that country gave birth to you and probably to your parents. You studied, got your first car, got your first girl and your first hangover in there .
Well, there are countries where this is not possible. So, Italians may not know how to queue, but if you now are a good IT and a smart guy, well, this is also due to the culture where you grew up.
Never forget where your bread's buttered, mate
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I live in freaking Italy and I am the one feeding it not the way around - a nation is made of and lives off its citizens and not viceversa.
I am smart because I am smart and my parents taught me to be that way not becauso of Italy - I've been disciplinary sanctioned in high school because I was the best in my class!!! And it was easy since a couple of people in that class still sillabated when reading!!! One of them asked with how many zeroes is 10.000 written and she was 18 for elephant's sake!
I'm a good IT guy (I hope so) because I poured sweat blood and sunshine when the whole society tried to keep me backward, obtaining my first Internet access in 2009 and it was a 32 kbps GPRS connection while the world had fiber. I had to waste 6 hours per day to commute 50 kms, wasting a lot of time I could have used properly.
And I still live here, in Piedmont. I work as an engineer and I'm paid slightly more than a labourer. My car is worth 500€ and I have to thank the passing of my grandpa if I have it.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
modified 11-Oct-16 11:25am.
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Aless Alessio wrote: Hate to say this mate, but you re biting the hand that fed you, and it is never a good thing.
Respecting the hand purely for your food is not a very good thing 
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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The most unproductive way of thinking is that it is the State who is feeding us - and that's the major source of Italian problems. We always expect someone to do something... but the few who do something without waiting usually get sanctioned so heavily that they end up bankrupt or jailed since basically our system is a "what is not explicitly allowed is forbidden".
Politicians are corrupt as anywhere but with less honesty since people always forgive corruption, "I would have done it if I was in his/her place" is the common response.
I live here, I have some stakes here thanks to my parents breaking their backs (in the literal sense, my dad is 51 and has 13 hernias) and saving money as ants so I won't waste their work for a system that sucks - at the very least I will exploy the system and wait for its collapse.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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 , we have a dishwasher!!
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glennPattonWorking wrote: we have a dishwasher!!
Is that a promotion for you already, or is he a separate person? 
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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No the worrying thing is, he's called Samsung!
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Does he have an explosive personality?
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Hides under a bench, appears to eat strange tablets...
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On a more serious note, one place I worked had a cleaner who came in every night and washed up all the cups - I still washed my own cup and my Cafetière after he / she broke a couple. Wasn't popular with the staff for that as they assumed that if one person did their own, they would all be expected to.
Strange place to work - the hours were "9 to 5" but strictly enforced. You were hustled out and the door was locked at 5 on the dot, and if you even tried working your lunch break you'd regret it for days!
Got used to it, and it was the most productive environment I've worked in because you never over did it!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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I haven't had to do any coding yet, seems like they are TI advocates which doesn't bother me I have drunk their cool aid once before. Seems to be more of a laid back environment than the last place.
Coffee's not as good though  , mind you I have worked at the worlds leading vending machine manufacturer (you asked for a white, the question was latte etc)...
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Seems like someone has implemented the OA5 Company Model. See here[^] start at slide 322.
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It does - but the company was started in the 40's and predates OA5 by decades!
I was surprised how well it worked: being used to a company culture of "you're here until the work's done" with unpaid overtime the norm it was a shock to the system. But it really helped you focus by enforcing breaks away from the task, and formed the basis of my current system of taking frequent breaks to "keep fresh". And it was superb for morale and work / life balance!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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So Scott Adams didn't invent it, he just wrote it down.
I especially like the part about "One level removed".
My current company has understood that part almost to perfection, even if I doubt they ever heard the expression as such.
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I had a boss when I started work who was strict on 9-5 with lunch 12-1. I hated it but, yes, it forced you to use your time well.
Or faff about to close the last 25 minutes of the day. Faffing was good.
veni bibi saltavi
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I have worked at a place which was 08:30 to 17-00 mon to thur & 08:30 : 16-30:00 that is how it was written down (?) if you worked past 5pm you were in danger of being reported by the cleaners, the first place I worked at was 10:00 to 16:00 core hours anything outside as necessary (I tended to 09:30 to 17:00, as I found I could get ahead of the Americans if I did) 
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