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Definitely Rob Grainger2-Oct-16 23:11 Rob Grainger 2-Oct-16 23:11  There are good formal proof kits that can verify correctness. An O/S kernel that has end-to-end proofs of correctness and security: seL4[^]. "If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay. To err, is human Afzaal Ahmad Zeeshan2-Oct-16 23:06 Afzaal Ahmad Zeeshan 2-Oct-16 23:06  I believe, bug-free software is a very relative term in computer programming, too. It depends on many factors, such as, 1) Features required in the application software. 2) Experience of the programmer writing the software. 3) Tests conducted on the application. 4) Whether the "compiled" part is required or not. Personally, what I think happens is that a bug is just untested part or feature of the program. By test, I mean, what the output should be vs. what the output was being generated. Testing is just not about a finite set of inputs and outputs, but what the results are when you send a data that is meant to be corrupt — alphabets in a number textbox, SQL injection in data fetching text boxes etc. Bugs removal and bug detection has been confused a lot these years especially by beginners as they consider "Not responding" as a bug (which might be) but mostly (and IMO) bugs are the logical errors in the program. In the light of what is shared above, I believe we will not get a bug-free software in a foreseeable future. The sh*t I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~ You can make a bug free software, but... Smart K82-Oct-16 22:29 Smart K8 2-Oct-16 22:29  ...it must be a small command line tool with precisely defined functionality and platform. And even then there're no guarantees, but it can be done. Other than that impossible (at least at this day and age). Re: You can make a bug free software, but... Rob Grainger2-Oct-16 23:12 Rob Grainger 2-Oct-16 23:12  I disagree, see my comment about seL4 (Definitely). "If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay. Maybe it was den2k882-Oct-16 21:03 den2k88 2-Oct-16 21:03  then (misunderstood and badly applied) Agile and cheap developer-monkeys who are lost without a friggin framework and can kill systems thanks to badly managed memoty (i.e. managed by a brainless system instead of a hopefully not brainless programmer). GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++*      Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani Re: Maybe it was User 101325462-Oct-16 23:23 User 10132546 2-Oct-16 23:23  den2k88 wrote: badly managed memoty Sounds like you need some kind of brainless spell checking framework for that I came into this game for the action, the excitement. Go anywhere, travel light, get in, get out, wherever there's trouble, a man alone. Now they got the whole country sectioned off, you can't make a move without a form. modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm. Re: Maybe it was den2k882-Oct-16 23:26 den2k88 2-Oct-16 23:26  Today I'm mistyping anything, both in English and my native language. It's the Monday effect... GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++*      Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani Depends... Sander Rossel2-Oct-16 20:45 Sander Rossel 2-Oct-16 20:45  I can write a bug free "Hello World", no problem (actually it once took me a good 30 minutes in JavaScript because of a spelling error ). Building a full-scale bug-free enterprise application is a bit harder to get right (first run without compiling while writing ). Anyway, since there are A LOT of bunglers out there (my hypothesis is that 99% of people are bunglers) it won't happen for large applications created by big teams, especially when they run on different environments. Read my (free) ebook Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly. Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles here on CodeProject. Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra Regards, Sander Never Midi_Mick2-Oct-16 20:05 Midi_Mick 2-Oct-16 20:05  It is not possible to make your software idiot-proof, as idiots can be so ingenious. Cheers, Mick ------------------------------------------------ It doesn't matter how often or hard you fall on your arse, eventually you'll roll over and land on your feet. I think not mirdana2-Oct-16 20:04 mirdana 2-Oct-16 20:04  I was thinking about a car. driving fast in a highway. At gear 4 u suddenly decide to change the gear to 1, and boom. If u are still alive there would be no car surely.In real world this is not a bug but in software it is and user should be treated like a child that can destroy every thing and even hurt him/herself. Re: I think not den2k882-Oct-16 21:05 den2k88 2-Oct-16 21:05  I'm currenlty working for a customer of that kind. Adding complexity and complexity to allow him to keep using the 0.1% of his brain instead of the full 0.5% required for our software to be used. GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++*      Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani Re: I think not mirdana2-Oct-16 22:15 mirdana 2-Oct-16 22:15  In one of my projects the customer got angry with me 'why there is just 20 records but it should be 30'. It was the time when mouse scroll was discovered. Re: I think not Mycroft Holmes2-Oct-16 23:06 Mycroft Holmes 2-Oct-16 23:06  Oh you have one of my "Big Red Button" clients. client whining: "Why is this so complex all I want is one button, aren't you supposed to make it simple" Response: Next time this user opens the app there is one large red button with "Press Me" - he was not amused. Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH Re: I think not den2k882-Oct-16 23:13 den2k88 2-Oct-16 23:13  He wants no button, everything must be done silently and automatically - in this case the recovery from fatal errors on hidden moving piston. He doesn't want to access the freaking diagnostic interface when something of this gravity happens - he doesn't want to learn the functions of the 4 buttons and 10 labels on that interface. Poor thing, he's only the chief supervisor of two entire production lines of one of the biggest food industries of Italy (big exporter too), how could I ever ask some compentence of him. PS: critical errors on that muthaf piston happen 1/2 times a week, because of course the engineer responsible for integrating the hardware in the machine (me) wasn't included in the loop during the selection of the hardware piece, so we ended up with a piston built in China with the firmware and the documentation written by a student who was writing his graduating thesis. Of course it works like sunshine. GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++*      Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani Re: I think not mirdana3-Oct-16 2:35 mirdana 3-Oct-16 2:35  At the end "The customer is always right" 3 Reasons Why the Customer Is Always Right ... Is Wrong | Inc.com[^] Re: I think not den2k883-Oct-16 2:39 den2k88 3-Oct-16 2:39  The customer isn't always right, WE keep him always on the right; so that when we strike we're sure not to miss GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++*      Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani

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