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That was fantastic Nitron, a wealth of knowledge and good sense.
I certainly see us putting together a CPSF (Code Project Solutions Framework) for developing software. We cannot just come out of CP2 with just applications. We should come out with a strong process model as well. From the sounds of it you would be the lead of that project 
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa
Chris Losinger wrote:
i hate needles so much i can't even imagine allowing one near The Little Programmer
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Paul Watson wrote:
That was fantastic Nitron, a wealth of knowledge and good sense.
... it happens every now and then. 
- Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
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I'm not sure I really like that structure, it needs a lot of people.
To be honest it looks like something they use at IBM or other big old compagnies 
I think the project lead should pich his own structure, because the structure always depends on the team, and the people on the team.
- Anders
Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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Anders Molin wrote:
I think the project lead should pich his own structure
I think so too, but are there any basic roles you think need to be filled? Examples: Source Manager, Tech. Writer, QA Manager, etc.
Jason Henderson My articles
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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Of course there is, but I don't know all of them before I see the tools we have to work with here on CP, and before I see the size/type of my team 
I hate when people make rules, saying we are going to do it this way, and then they force the team to work like that.
I love flexibility, and like to make the rules so they fit the team, this way your team is more happy, and if you do it right, you get a better product.
- Anders
Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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Don't get me wrong, I don't want to force rules on you. These posts are just requests for comments that will help these projects get off the ground and on the right path.
Jason Henderson latest CPP news
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
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Anders Molin wrote:
I'm not sure I really like that structure, it needs a lot of people.
Please, don't think of it as "structure". That was a bad term. Think of it as an offensive lineup, or the types of players that need to take the field during a pariticular play. I bascially gave an overview of an entire (american) football team. You need an offense, defense, and kick-off/punt/fieldgoal speciality teams, each customized for their task. The flexibility is there for project leads to do as they choose, but somehow in some form those roles need to be filled. I am not saying one person per role, several people will fill several roles, that is certain. I do however feel that you cannot deliver an SEI level 3 or higher product with any of those roles missing. (especially as the projects get larger and more ambitious)
Anders Molin wrote:
To be honest it looks like something they use at IBM or other big old compagnies
Relative to other areas of engineering disipline, software engineering is quite new, and is in need of some form of measurement of quality IMO. It's not intended as an imposing paradigm but as a standard against which to judge.
- Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
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OK, its been done before, but as I am a possible runner for PL in this project (subject to Tom Welch coming back), I wanted to get the ball rolling on this.
Any suggestions on the library and what should be in it can be posted on my Message board[^] as well.
So get going people. I saw an earlier post with a long list of suggestions, so I will be looking at that again as a good starting footprint.
Roger Allen
Sonork 100.10016
Were you different as a kid? Did you ever say "Ooohhh, shiny red" even once? - Paul Watson 11-February-2003
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You're not really gonna call it UGLY are you?
I think GUILD or FLUID are better names.
------- signature starts
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio.
------- signature ends
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
You're not really gonna call it UGLY are you?
I think GUILD or FLUID are better names.
UGLY is just a recognisable name for the moment, until a final formallised name gets decided on, its a good enough handle to use for the moment, which people recognise at that.
But after saying that, I will not do the project unless we can get the most annoying anacronym as possible! 
Roger Allen
Sonork 100.10016
Were you different as a kid? Did you ever say "Ooohhh, shiny red" even once? - Paul Watson 11-February-2003
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GUILD or FLUID are possible if there are no copyright issues.
How about this:
RUID - Roger's UserInterfaces Deluxe
I am sure it would boost Roger's motivation through the roof...
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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For me it is most important that they are well tested om all relevant operation systems. I am prepared to do testing on XP.
[sorry for this anonymous]
jhaga
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Anonymous wrote:
most important that they are well tested on all relevant operation systems.
This is a good point, we need to setup testers on various OS's. I myself have access to XP, 2K, NT4
Anonymous wrote:
[sorry for this anonymous]
As long as I know who to blame....
Roger Allen
Sonork 100.10016
Were you different as a kid? Did you ever say "Ooohhh, shiny red" even once? - Paul Watson 11-February-2003
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I can test it on Win95, Win98 and Win2000.
-Dominik
_outp(0x64, 0xAD);
and
__asm mov al, 0xAD __asm out 0x64, al
do the same... but what do they do??
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Please post all responses to Roger's message board as he asked.
thanks
Jason Henderson My articles
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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Sorry, I have been away for a few days. In the near future my schedule will clear up but I'd hate to commit to anything that would let down a team project. I plan on being involved as much as I can, but I would certainly prefer that Roger take the PL on this project. I am always available if he is no longer available.
I am just amazed at the number of messages I need to catch up on!  Looks like I can spend all day on CP getting caught up.
Thanks for taking initiative on this, Roger.
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check out my week 1 digest (top post at the moment)
Jason Henderson latest CPP news
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
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Thanks for doing the digest!
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Looks like your the guy now.
Congrats!
Jason Henderson latest CPP news
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
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I'm shamesly reusing Marc's idea
If any of you have some great ideas about the product(s) and how to make them, please make a post at my message board [^].
The original idea was to bild both a Defect Tracker (bug tracker) and a Soruce Control (like Source Safe or CVS) and make them work together.
My hope is to make a system that is as good as Bugzilla and as CVS, but make it work like Windows developers are used to. This means smoothless integration with VS.NET, and a good GUI for management and daily use.
Headlines:
What would you want in a new Defect Tracker
What would you want to see in a new Source Control System
What languages do we use to make this product
As I see it there's several parts in this project, and we might be able to use both native C++, and .NET and ASP.NET
- Anders
Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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Seapine Software have created a great link between its Defect System (Test Track Pro) and its CVS (Surround SCM) .. Worth checking out.
www.seapine.com.
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Organization chart: (I have a thingy for these so bear with me)
Chris and Paul at the top of course.
Projects coordinator:Jason Henderson
- main responsibility is to report to Chris and Paul about requests that the project leaders(PL) have proposed to him. This will prevent individual PL to overload Chris.
- should have no saying in individual projects.
- can any time contact PLs and propose different ways to collaborate and how to make us all feel like one group.
Project leaders:
- would have full freedom to build up their own project. Before people join the PL should make clear how decisions are made and the objective of the project.
- write up an abstract using a template file to make Jason happy
Project members:
- should give some information about their general CP activity. By for example writing in their biography that they are on vacation etc.
Decisions are made by all CPP members doing a "vote 48h" like the one I have posted somewhere around here.
And hey, lets open up this forum and we can get going!
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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jhaga wrote:
Chris and Paul at the top of course.
Paul?
- Anders
Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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Paul is Chris's right hand. Or not?
jhaga
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And one more thing! Write alternatives to my proposal. No voting here, damn it !
jhaga
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