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OriginalGriff wrote: humans started in a small region of Africa,
Homo sapiens origins appear to be in a single place. Hominids however not so much. Besides, the expansion potential for homo sapiens was, I would venture to suggest, rather greater than strands of DNA that hadn't yet figured out how to make a cell!
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Considering how unlikely the life-creating event is, even when all the right stuff is in the right place, a single-event is probable. Once established, it can spread as it mutates into endless diversity.
That being said, time has been around a long time - so other events may have occurred and if they compete for resources then only one version may survive - either because it's more efficient, or very likely because it got there first.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: Considering how unlikely the life-creating event is, even when all the right stuff is in the right place, a single-event is probable.
That's the real question right there: how easy or difficult is it for life to get started?
If it's very difficult, then the single event is likely. If it's easy, then the single event is unlikely.
Personally, I'd be very surprised if our own solar system isn't full of life.
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Brent Jenkins wrote: Personally, I'd be very surprised if our own solar system isn't full of life.
And for that, time is on your side (at least five billion years worth of it, so far).
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Brent Jenkins wrote: Personally, I'd be very surprised if our own solar system isn't full of life.
It is. It's just all on one planet!
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Is our planet the whole solar system? 
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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 If a pond is full of fish and I then herd all the fish into one corner of that pond is the pond no longer full of fish? Is there not an abundance of fish in the pond irrespective of where they happen to be? Is there no possibility of a superfluity of fish as long as there is some part of the water in which there is no fish? Has the word 'full' suddenly acquired a meaning requiring even distribution or it doesn't count?
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Sorry if I've confused you. I'd thought my original statement "if our own solar system isn't full of life.." was actually pretty clear.
However, let me clarify that by saying "our own solar system", I was referring to every planet, moon and lump of rock between the sun and the farthest edge of our solar system[^].
I can't say it any clearer than that. If it's still not clear, then I'm not really the guy who can help you. 
The whole thing's rigged to blow, touch those tanks and "boooom"!
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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The Earth is only a part of the solar system, it's not the whole solar system.
I really shouldn't need to explain this, should I?
Do I explicitly need to exclude Earth? If so, consider it excluded.
The whole thing's rigged to blow, touch those tanks and "boooom"!
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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What was the point? Wordplay, that's all.
Someone looking to ignore the point I originally made with (what they thought would be) a clever comment.
Great, thanks for that. This is why nothing gets done these days, we all just sit around making smart-arsed comments that contribute nothing.
Well done, keep up the good work.
The whole thing's rigged to blow, touch those tanks and "boooom"!
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Dunno, I expected a normal conversation..
If I'd have wanted replies along the lines of "you're, not your" I'd have commented on the Guardian.
Oh well, that'll teach me.
The whole thing's rigged to blow, touch those tanks and "boooom"!
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Take a look at the original reply[^] - where's the humour?
You seem to be someone out looking for anything to argue about. I made a comment about life probably being spread across the solar system, got a reply saying it's all here on earth, I re-stated that I meant the whole solar system.
What's your issue here?
The whole thing's rigged to blow, touch those tanks and "boooom"!
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Xaotiq wrote: clearly missed his point
So tell me, what was his point?
Xaotiq wrote: The restaurant is full of patrons. They are all in the Lobby and Dinning room. The fact that they are NOT in the kitchen does not mean the statement is false.
Kind of stating the obvious.. why would restaurant patrons be in the kitchen? Maybe it's an American thing that I'm missing here? 
Xaotiq wrote: But to keep digging in... well that just says something about your character.
Probably. So what of it? We're all different aren't we?
The whole thing's rigged to blow, touch those tanks and "boooom"!
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Xaotiq wrote: First and for most, humor.
Secondly, english is a fun and funny language.
I'm sorry, I just don't see the humour. Maybe it's me?
Xaotiq wrote: On that note, then isn't it obvious what he said? Or do you expect there to be life floating in the middle of space between Earth and Mars?
He said it's all here on Earth. Yes, obvious what he said. No, can't see the humour there. If I was to take things further, it sounds like what a midwest bible basher might say. I'm jumping to conclusions here.
Xaotiq wrote: But hey, I am here responding to you
What else are you going to do on a Tuesday night?
The whole thing's rigged to blow, touch those tanks and "boooom"!
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Xaotiq wrote: Why would it need to be everywhere?
Why does it need to be anywhere, is a more pertinent question. If it's in one place, why not others?
Xaotiq wrote: For example, think of nuclear power and weaponry. Sure, many nations were researching and trying to get the tech but one got there first. Moreover, the research done propagated to other nations (allied and theft) to have them gain said technology or drive them to study it.
There are plenty of other human inventions that sprung up independently across regions: the wheel, shoes, clothes, eating utensils..
Xaotiq wrote: I think you are thinking about the event too closely to how humans behave socially.
The thing about thinking about how humans behave is that our thinking often reflects natural processes. The fact that multiple people across geographic regions and cultures can come up with the same thing implies that the same event can happen in multiple places, unless you believe that we're somehow "special", disconnected from nature?
Life starting from a single source at a specific time means that the conditions for life starting are extremely specific; in my book that means it's unlikely to the point that we probably shouldn't exist. The fact we do exist rules it out, at least for me.
The whole thing's rigged to blow, touch those tanks and "boooom"!
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Xaotiq wrote: If I drop my pen and you drop your pen what is the likely-hood they hit the ground at the exact same time?
Why not ask how many people in the world drop their pen at the same time as you? It's just as valid.
Xaotiq wrote: I chose an example of societal change that was more of an accurate comparison.
All of these comparisons are subjective - either of us can find examples to fit our argument. The fact is that on the original point, there is little or no evidence - everything is based on theories extrapolated from current thinking. Once the world was flat, once the sun orbited the Earth, once there was no water on Mars, etc.
Xaotiq wrote: You are dismissing the effect of society. If you took said people out of society they would NOT come up with the same ideas. They came up with them, because they existed in society leading them to that idea.
Isn't human society a part of nature in itself?
Xaotiq wrote: f it were as you say, we would be talking with aliens from the astroids, mars, venus, heck even life that just cropped up in the middle of space. That makes no sense. We know it must be somewhat rare as we are watching the sky and listening. Turns out it is pretty quiet. That's not to say there is no life out there.
I think I see your confusion here, you're thinking I'm talking about little green men. I'm not. You've got to decide as to what life actually is and where it comes from.
About the pretty quiet thing - I doubt we'll ever hear anything, given the constraints imposed by the laws of relativity and the distances involved, let alone the fact that we've only been listening for a few decades.
Imagine a civilisation sending out signals for a million years, before they died out and their signal stopped reaching Earth before we started listening. Or imagine that perhaps they were using a different medium to electromagnetic waves. We're looking for something we'll most likely never find, even if it does exist.
For me, I'm thinking about microbes across our solar system. If life can start and adapt to conditions here, then why not elsewhere? Perhaps we'll get lucky and find kind of invertebrate, or it might just be something coral-like or a fungus - but to me that counts as life.
The whole thing's rigged to blow, touch those tanks and "boooom"!
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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As any fewl kno -
Genesis Chapter 1 Verse 11: Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so.
All jokes apart, Genesis 1 is a pretty good allegory of how everything came into being - nothing - mater forms celestial bodies - planets form continents - simple life begins - animals - man - Gin and Party! Just a slight matter of who did it and how long it took.
Before anyone flames me, neither Anglicans or Catholics hold that Genesis is an absolute truth, just a biblical truth; which means its hocum, but good hocum.
veni bibi saltavi
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