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CDP1802 wrote: Living = complex biochemical processes inside a cell.
Not really. Living means having a soul, a spirit, or whatever you want to call it. Science cannot make a soul and that is where the intelligence originates; therefore, we'll never be able to make true intelligence.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Then it must be impossible to study it and gather a mathematical model of a cell's function and the emulation must, without obvious reason, differ from the original. Why does this not happen in models used in medical or pharma applications?
Or, if such unexplained differences exist, why is there no way to find their cause?
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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CDP1802 wrote: Then it must be impossible to study it
I don't see why. 
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Because this soul must be the thing that makes the difference between a living cell and my, as you believe, not working simulation. If it were something that can be measured, then I would of course take it into account and the simulation would work. Therefore it must be something that cannot be measured and that there is even no clue to where to look for it.
Your belief in all honor, but I find it hard to believe in the existence of a thing that can't be seen, measured or does not at least cause any noticable effects. A simulation can be plagued with all kinds of problems, including overly simplifying the model or too little precision, but a missing soul seems not to be among them.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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CDP1802 wrote: If it were something that can be measured
I'm sure it can. Science doesn't know how to yet but that doesn't mean it can't be measured. Perhaps the Ghostbusters were on to something. 
CDP1802 wrote: but I find it hard to believe in the existence of a thing that can't be seen, measured or does not at least cause any noticable effects.
You've never seen anything that was dead? That's pretty noticeable.
What about love and other emotions? They cannot be seen, measured, and often don't have any noticeable effects yet I'm certain you still believe in them.
I would also imagine you believe there are stars, planets, asteroids, etc, beyond how far we can currently observe yet none of it can be seen.
I don't think your belief in only tangible things is as black and white as you maybe thought it was.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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RyanDev wrote: You've never seen anything that was dead? That's pretty noticeable.
Yes, the biochemical processes have broken down. Many cells may have enough resources to keep on going on their own for a while, but then they will also die. Actually not so different from my PC at home. It does not boot anymore and if just the right transistors have given up their small electronic souls, then it might very well lead to the death of some other components.
Yes, I know, I have a stubborn naturalistic view that leaves little room for any mysticism.
RyanDev wrote: What about love and other emotions? They cannot be seen, measured, and often don't have any noticeable effects yet I'm certain you still believe in them.
Why do you ask me? Especially most females I have encountered accuse me of being unemotional and unbearably logical.
RyanDev wrote: I don't think your belief in only tangible things is as black and white as you maybe thought it was.
I do my best to know, not to believe. Until I don't get any indication that's convincing enough, I will not go hunting for Bigfoot, Yetis, Loch Ness monsters, ghosts, trolls or goblins. And, until I have actually caught one of these, I will not try to make one of them responsible for any other things I'm not happy about.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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CDP1802 wrote: Yes, the biochemical processes have broken down. Many cells may have enough resources to keep on going on their own for a while, but then they will also die. Actually not so different from my PC at home. It does not boot anymore and if just the right transistors have given up their small electronic souls, then it might very well lead to the death of some other components.
All your seeing is the effect of the soul on the physical parts. Similar to watching a mechanical device move yet you can't see (at least not with your eye) the electrons that are doing the actual work.
CDP1802 wrote: Why do you ask me? Especially most females I have encountered accuse me of being unemotional and unbearably logical.
You're evading the question. 
CDP1802 wrote: I do my best to know, not to believe.
As do I. 
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Sorry, but I strongly believed I had to go home. 
RyanDev wrote: All your seeing is the effect of the soul on the physical parts. Similar to watching a mechanical device move yet you can't see (at least not with your eye) the electrons that are doing the actual work.
No. Electrons can't do anything at all if The Force is not with you. And when The Force is with you then you can just as well turn off the targeting computer and blow up a Death Star. Just fire when the voices in your head tell you trust them and then simply to do so. 
Seriously, science is all about learning about previously unknown phenomena. The process usually is to observe something that cannot be explained with existing knowledge, gathering more information and then attempting to use your information and logic to describe what you are looking for. This theory then enables you to make predictions which can be tested and then may confirm or falsify your theory. Never ever has the belief in magic led to any knowledge so far.
Anyway, I really hope you are just trying to keep a good argument going. If I were religious, I would prefer to praise god for what he really did.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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CDP1802 wrote: Seriously, science is all about learning about previously unknown phenomena. The process usually is to observe something that cannot be explained with existing knowledge, gathering more information and then attempting to use your information and logic to describe what you are looking for. This theory then enables you to make predictions which can be tested and then may confirm or falsify your theory. Never ever has the belief in magic led to any knowledge so far.
Agreed. So?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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So, what leads you to the conclusion that a soul is essential for life. What observations led you to believe that only this describes what is needed to explain your observations? What properties does it have? Where is the difference between a biochemical reacion in a cell or the same reaction in a test tube? In extension, how does this soul enable cells to perform in a way that they become components of an intelligent system? Why do you think that it's absolutely impossible to make logical gates which have the same properties?
Lots of questions and without some answers I can easily come up with countless other 'explanations' which actually explain nothing at all.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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CDP1802 wrote: So, what leads you to the conclusion that a soul is essential for life.
Because without one you die.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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And how do we test this claim?
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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CDP1802 wrote: And how do we test this claim?
Remove one. I suggest you test on someone else.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Again, how exactly can this be done? You have not yet given any answers, only yet another claim.
I have another theory. Living cells are immortal. The presence of a soul is not needed. Instead, parasitic evil spirits cause them to age and eventually die. Now what?
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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CDP1802 wrote: Again, how exactly can this be done? You have not yet given any answers, only yet another claim.
As I already stated, I can't go into detail here in the Lounge (no talk of God) or I'm sure those who love to mark as abusive will go off on me. I'll gladly go into it in the Soapbox if you care enough.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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No need. I have seen enough people who, in a way, have sold their souls and don't want to live like them in my own little hell full of anger and fear. A little rational thinking is my defense against them.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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It sounds like you're trying to be offensive. Since you know absolutely nothing about me, I'll let it pass.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Why should I do that? Sorry if it looked that way. It was getting late and I obviously jumpeed to the last chapter a little too quickly.
What I really meant to say is that you are probably right that this is not the right place for such a discussion. Religion can be a dangerous topic. Preachers and missionaries will not have much fun with me, simply because I refuse to blindly repeat anything they say, no matter how illogical it may be. Some 'holy men' don't react kindly or understandingly when someone asks too many questions. To keep the peace, I do not doubt god, but I doubt the motives of many who claim to speak in his name.
The other side are people who you might call 'evil'. While I never will understand why some people apparently can't live without making others lives miserable, I still don't need a devil as explanation. It is their own fear, anger and weakness. Those things are not rational, just as the results usually are destructive and irrational. Those are the people I would say who have lost their souls, of course not literally.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
modified 22-Aug-15 4:08am.
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CDP1802 wrote: I doubt the motives of many who claim to speak in his name.
Agreed 100% 
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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I hope this is the right spot to put this question. If it is not, I'm sorry, and please move it to where it should be.
Anyways, I'm very, very new to programming - and I'm just starting out with it in college. But what I have noticed while I learned Python, is that there is tons of information you have to know. And because of that, you need some type of system to organize the notes.
I was wondering how you guys organize your programming and algorithm notes. Because mine just look like a big pile of poop. I've tried a few different systems with it, but it seems too cluttered and unorganized.
Is there any system that you guys recommend for taking your programming notes?
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Don't organize anything - Google it when needed. You will shortly remember the true necessities.
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I have tried that but I feel like there is WAY too much information, and I can't remember hardly anything at all (Plus I have the memory of a 200 year old. I mean that literally).
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Then set yourself up a WordPress site, and post the solutions there after you've Googled them. Reading and writing - two stages of the memory conduit... You can then search that way, if you enter a description before the code. You don't even have to publish it on a real site - set up a WAMP server on your local drive.
Or write an article and post it on CP of what you are learning. Many may scoff at Newbie articles of such a nature, but if it works for you, and you don't care about low article ratings... Or make it semi-autobiographical - maybe the ratings would go up.
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David O'Neil wrote: post it on CP
Even your own profile's forum/blog area can be used for that.
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I thought that was what Tips & Tricks was for, I started posting 1 or 2 liners that I used with the intention of being able to come back any time and peruse them when trying to remember a neat bit of code I just know I have done before.
T&T has turned into a mini article suppository!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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