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The 450.
The harddrive and memory can be upgraded, the rest alas not.
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That's right... 
Yes, I do think I'll try to get this one.
Even none of them has the best set of processors available... those are the ones available and I do think it will be enough for now.
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Between a faster CPU and more RAM, these days, I'll go with more RAM.
So, given that you can/will upgrade it yourself, then IMO it becomes a matter of which supports the most.
Even if you only intend to get 16GB now, if one of them supports, say, 32GB and the other doesn't, then I'd go with the one that can take it.
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Both can reach only 16GB, which for my job I think it will be enough, by now... I've been living with 6GB and 2GB in my last computers... so I think jumping to 12 will be a great improvement... 
And who knows if in a near future I will be able to add another 4GB...
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I'll just say that no amount of RAM seems to large once you start using virtual machines. 
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Yes, of course... I don't use virtual machines really often, only to test things: web site maintenance when is needed (plenty of browsers installed, remote support to our customers, and to test some specific things when my computer must be free of problems...).
But that's a really clear reason to get more RAM...
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Assuming the specs are OK (which for both of those, I think they are) I think it is much more important to get your hands on one, if at all possible, and see how you like the keyboard, touchpad, and screen IRL
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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I can't do it... I'm buying them directly at a major importer and I can only buy them by Internet...
But as far as I've seen I'll have a problem that I got also when going from IBM to HP... the FN and the Ctrl Key are switched in both brands and this will imply a small adaptation...
Apart of that as my last laptop has been working for a lot of years I'll notice a change whichever I get so I'm more than happy to spend some time re-learning to use the keyboard... 
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Lenovo A vs Lenovo B.
Make sure that Superfish[^] does not trap you.
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I'll remove it as soon as the computer arrives...
Yes... superfish is a wrong move from their side... but I need something that works and T series laptops look really interesting in terms of specs...
I've got tired of HP after several problems with the laptops I've got from them... now while I'm waiting for the new machine I'll have to use the T41p IBM latptop... it will be a nightmare, but at least I'll be able to continue working...
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I have had more problems with Windows 8.1 and Windows 10. On both I have had Office 2010 fail on both. This did not happen on Windows 7 (also on Windows 8.1 did not have Office 2007). Also these OSs no longer support DVDs without special software. Microsoft says it no longer needs to support DVDs because they are obsolete. I am sorry, but there are many titles that cannot be downloaded, and there is also the issue being on the internet to use online material, and also need the internet performance. Basically Microsoft is providing BS on why it should not support DVDs. In the meantime, Microsoft is just providing additional reasons for not buying PCs. Maybe the time of the PC is gone, but apparently the fall in PC sales corresponded to the release of Windows 8. All I can say is that I am moving back to Windows 7.
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Clifford Nelson wrote: Microsoft says it no longer needs to support DVDs because they are obsolete.
I laugh. A few weeks back I installed Win 10, plus Visual Studio .next CTP, and SQL Server 2014. Of course I needed to have the OS on a disk, but VS installed as an ISO mounted as a virtual disk just fine. Not so for SQL Server. I tried a bunch of times before finally burning the ISO to a disk and using it.
I did not try Office -- I use Office 2003 anyway.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: Of course I needed to have the OS on a disk
Not really, you can install from usb-stick. (if you'r interested in how just google it, plenty of articles about it)
My new desktop doesn't have a dvd-bay anymore, I can't even remember when the last time was I used a cd/dvd.
PIEBALDconsult wrote: Not so for SQL Server
Really?
Haven't had any problems with installing just from hdd (on windows 7 and 8.1, haven't tried 10 yet)
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No DVD, No CD support, im done... all my epic Games from 1992 to 2000 are gone?
(Don't remind me about the floppys)
if(this.signature != "")
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}
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Clifford Nelson wrote: Also these OSs no longer support DVDs without special software
You are referring only to films, aren't you?
In my windows 8.1 machine I can use DVD's and CDROMS without any issue...
Still not tried Windows 10...
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Why should you need DVDs, when you can pay MS to store everything on-line for you?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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My 8.1 lappie doesn't have a DVD bay, so I just bought a cheap USB one and plugged it in.
It installed the drivers and just worked.
Alcohol 120% works fine, too. I opened several ISOs to install all the cr@p I use.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Clifford Nelson wrote: Office 2010
Been running it for two years now on Win8 & Win8.1 without a single glitch.
Clifford Nelson wrote: Also these OSs no longer support DVDs without special software
Not sure what you mean, but my "out of the box" Media player plays DVDs, and the Windows Explorer ... explores DVD as well.
I googled for it and found this : http://www.howtogeek.com/127774/how-to-play-dvds-on-windows-8/[^]  Now my question for tonight when I am back on my home machine : what the elephant gets fired up when I click on a video DVD ???
You are probably ranting because still irritated by something not working, but I do not think that Microsoft is probably not involved in it.
And I just cannot believe that I have just written that.
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Rage wrote: I do not think that Microsoft is probably not involved in it.
Yeah, seems unlikely in the light of Windows 8..
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Clifford Nelson wrote: Also these OSs no longer support DVDs without special software.
As Joan said, that's only for playing films on DVD. Data DVDs work fine, both for reading and writing.
The reason isn't "BS"; to include DVD playback, Microsoft would have to pay to license the relevant codecs, which would increase the cost of the OS.
VLC Player[^] will let you watch DVDs without paying for the Media Center Pack. Commercial Blu-Ray playback is much harder due to the encryption, but Google has a few suggestions if you need it.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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Quote: On both I have had Office 2010 fail on both
Never had any issues with Office 2010 on either
Quote: Also these OSs no longer support DVDs without special software.
VLC takes like a minute to install
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I'm with you. I use Office 2013 on 8.1 and never even a hiccup. I also have a media PC that I play my music and DVDs through - also 8.1.
I've not used Wen yet and probably won't for quite some time.
I suggest that the cause of the issues stated lies elsewhere.
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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They are very impatient in my new Brisbane job for me to come!
So impatient in fact that, as I am stuck in Darwin until the 15, I just started to work remotely! 
My first job: produce an architectural document!
Woa, first time I was asked to produce such (usually I just go away and do it).
Well I guess with money comes responsibility and reports!
Here we go, Word document!  
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