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Richard MacCutchan wrote: I don't believe it helps them in the long run
Indeed, it teaches them to rely on other people to do their work for them.
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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S Houghtelin wrote: it teaches them to rely on other people to do their work for them.
To be a manager in other words. 
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha
Simply Elegant Designs Jim<</xml>
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Which is why we deride them and complain bitterly about their lack of initiative.
Today, clueless hack. Tomorrow, I would like you to meet your new department manager".
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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S Houghtelin wrote: Today, clueless hack. Tomorrow, I would like you to meet your new department manager".
Unfortunately in over 40 years in the industry that is the rule rather than the exception. 
I have had only three good managers in all that time.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha
Simply Elegant Designs Jim<</xml>
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Ok. So did you mean we should help this guy[^]??
I should be agree to Richard. Apart from that, if someone is not able to even start coding, i don't think he or she deserves to be a software professional.
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly"- SoMad
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Rohan Leuva wrote: So did you mean we should help this guy[^]??
Of course. Why wouldn't you? Don't participate in this site if you think someone does not deserve help. Everyone deserves help. Sometimes that help might be to suggest they read a book or a tutorial, but everyone deserves help.
Rohan Leuva wrote: if someone is not able to even start coding, i don't think he or she deserves to be a software professional.
I don't understand that attitude. Every single software professional had a point in their life where they couldn't even start coding. We all had to learn.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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RyanDev wrote: Don't participate in this site if you think someone does not deserve help
I don't think this statement make sense in context of this post. If you are not mature enough to discuss something,ignore it. Why to make something personal?
RyanDev wrote: I don't understand that attitude.
This is not something related to attitude, its all about one's way of thinking.
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly"- SoMad
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Rohan Leuva wrote: Why to make something personal?
I think you misunderstood.
My point is everyone deserves some help. If you feel that people don't deserve help then I don't think you should participate here.
Rohan Leuva wrote: This is not something related to attitude, its all about one's way of thinking.
Yes, you're saying the same thing.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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RyanDev wrote: everyone deserves some help
Asking someone to read Tutorial is help? I don't think so. Its totally a different thing to point some one in a right direction by suggesting some useful things.
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly"- SoMad
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Rohan Leuva wrote: Asking someone to read Tutorial is help? I don't think so.
I disagree. Sometimes the best answer is to refer them to do some study on their own.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Rohan Leuva wrote: if someone is not able to even start coding, i don't think he or she deserves to be a software professional.
You have never seen some of the managers I have worked with.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha
Simply Elegant Designs Jim<</xml>
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I'm 100% with you on this one - the grand sum of information the poster gives to help us to help him with is problem is:
"how to do thishow do i create a page in html that allows a user to enter a username and password by javascript"
This is not someone interested in learning, this is sheer laziness 
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Help is one thing: sitting on your thumb and getting others to do it all for you is another.
I help beginners - if they have tried and are stuck. But when it's clear they haven't bothered to start engaging their brain then the best help you can give is to say "No. At least try to do it yourself."
Doing anything else means that they might even pass their course without ever writing code or having a clue how to debug it when they do find some on the internet. And some of them do seem pretty dedicated to managing exactly that...
And the next thing you know, they read a couple of "interview questions" articles and bluff their way into a job working at the desk next to you. Are you going to like that? Especially if they are earning much the same as you for knowing a total of elephant all. 
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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It sounds like we agree. 
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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What if he answers the question himself then? 
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OriginalGriff wrote: sitting on your thumb and getting others to do it all for you is another.
That is called skill which every programmer needs. Damn why do I lack it
Microsoft ... the only place where VARIANT_TRUE != true
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Asking for help on a sticking point is one thing, but asking for help in picking a project topic tells me the person should do just enough to pass the class, and pick another vocation that doesn't involve freedom of thought. A programmer has to be able to think on his feet.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Agree with you. While starting coding about 28 years ago, being a Mechanical Engineer*, I didn't know what a 'file' was. Why do we need files? We had heard of office files storing sheets of paper, but what is a computer file? Then, we found a good Samaritan who patiently taught us (a group of friends/classmates) about files, and the meaning of compiling, linking, and creating the executable, in FORTRAN IV.
Further, while getting introduced to MFC, I found that even a simple "Hello World" application in Visual Studio (16-bit version 1.5 sometime in 1996/97) created several files, most of which were not even C++ files (.res, along with several Windows-related files); this again, was made simpler by someone sitting and clarifying.
Now, I think it is the other way around; there is an explosion of information on the Internet - so much so that it sometimes becomes difficult to separate the "grain from chaff" - especially for a newcomer. Of course, as you say, they should put efforts, and not just "sit with hands-folded and relaxed". But, somewhere, they need help, maybe a simple nudge.
* Shakespeare has a chapter called "The Rude Mechanicals" in "A Midsummer Night's Dream" - we were sometimes considered rude too.
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Avijnata wrote: there is an explosion of information on the Internet
Ironically I would think that would be good for this younger generation. But since they don't know how to find information it only makes it worse I guess.
For those of us that grew up without an internet we had to look in books, try, try, and try, again, and ask others so we know how to do the work to find an answer. For me, the internet has made finding answers much easier but for some I guess it hinders them.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Seeking and sharing knowledge are great gifts. They do don't come for free. Sometimes (often) the best advice is 'go and have a think about it'.
Peter Wasser
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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pwasser wrote: Seeking and sharing knowledge are great gifts. They do don't come for free. Sometimes (often) the best advice is 'go and have a think about it'.
I agree.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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The pity of it is, these people are either very dumb, or have receieved very poor teaching, which seems more likely. And ultimately their careers are not going to go well because they have been given such a poor grounding in the subject. There are too many questions which demonstrate that the poster has no real understanding of computer architecture, data storage, file handling, etc., even though they can put some simple (or not so simple) code together.
There was a very basic question some months ago, which could easily have been answered by looking at a reference book, and yet the poster thought it reasonable to ask here. And, even worse, he was teaching the class.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote: which demonstrate that the poster has no real understanding of computer architecture, data storage, file handling, etc., even though they can put some simple (or not so simple) code together.
But most of us were there once, I believe. 
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Nope. Facing tough (for me) problems I think about it, read about it, think some more and tinker with toy problems and solutions until I approach some result. When I ask for help I try to be very specific or ask pointers to documentation.
This is what a developer or engineer should do. Many students don't have this aptitude, proving that they simply chose the wrong faculty - engineering is about solving problems, possibily problems noone ever solved (if you're lucky enough). Solving problems requires thinking, not asking - that is the way of the schools, when you don't know something you ask the teacher... Not the way of someone trying to work out a solution.
Geek code v 3.12
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- r++>+++ y+++*
Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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den2k88 wrote: Nope
I said all of us have been at the point where we didn't know how to code. That IS true.
I agree with most of what you said. A great way to learn is to work through the problem on your own, kind of like lifting weights. It builds you up. But there is nothing wrong with asking a question. In fact a good developer knows at what point they have spent too much time looking for a solution and now should ask someone.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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