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Afzaal Ahmad Zeeshan wrote: But as far as things seem to be, religion is the common factor people start to hate others. Not the dominant one, but a reasonable factor it is.
Most war has been started over land, or power, both of which give the holder wealth.
There have been a few holy crusades, but generally about wealth.
Religion simply gives those in charge a means of recruiting and controlling people to fight for them.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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Wealth they already have (what do you think they're giving away to their soldiers?), they need power, and entertainment by killing of other kind.
The sh*t I complain about
It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem
~! Firewall !~
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Afzaal Ahmad Zeeshan wrote: Wealth they already have (what do you think they're giving away to their soldiers?)
A tiny fraction of the spoils of war, if they paid them at all.
Far easier to say you must fight for us because your God has told me you should. Why do you think armies throughout history have always marched with a healthy compliment of priests and ministers?
Religion is all about control, and it only works through fear; I've had a chat with god and he's told me if you don't do what I want he wants then he's gonna get ya. After you are dead.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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chriselst wrote: I've had a chat with god and he's told me if you don't do what I want he wants then he's gonna get ya. After you are dead.
That isn't religion. 
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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I didn't say it was, but that is (an example of) how religion is used to control people.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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chriselst wrote: how religion is used to control people.
There are a few examples from history, but the vast majority, 99%+, of religious people are not controlled by religion.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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The vast majority of people do not fight in wars either, which is the topic in hand.
But I disagree that most religious people are not controlled by someone using religion.
For example, how many people (back to parents again) mutilate the genitals of their young children because a man has told them that their god wants them to do it.
That's a fairly f***ed up thing to go along with if you ask me.
Then you have those who mutilate the genitals and then suck them. No more god for you, you cannot be trusted with one.
Mind you, I think those who let their god control what they can eat and when or how are ridiculous too.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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chriselst wrote: But I disagree that most religious people are not controlled by someone using religion.
You gave a couple of examples and I get your point. However, to say that religion controls people implies that if they did not have religion they would all be serial killers since religion teaches us (most religions at least) to love and serve others. It's ridiculous to claim people cannot act appropriately on their own, without religion "controlling" them.
And in your example, it's still a choice. If your religion says you should not drink alcohol you are not being controlled, you still have choice. 
In fact, laws and government control people way more than religion does. If my religion says not to drink and I do, so what? There's no consequence to me. However, if I speed and the government catches me then I have to pay a fine, go to jail, etc. Government controls way more than religion does.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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You seem to be talking about the modern / Western world.
The discussion was about wars throughout history.
The view was presented that religion was the reason for the wars, ie that those waging war were fighting for religious ideology.
My arguments against that was those waging war did so for other reasons and then used religion to control those fighting for them.
In a modern, Western army where those fighting have signed up and are paid then that is not true.
Throughout history I would say it was very much the truth.
In current wars in other parts of the world I would say it was true. How else do you explain the large numbers willing to become suicide bombers in ISIL for example? They are presented with the option that has come from god, blow yourself up and get the rewards from him in the next life or don't, in which case he has told us to kill you, or your family, or he will punish you in the next life.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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chriselst wrote: The discussion was about wars throughout history.
You're right. I was broadening the context as it sounded like the conversation had gone that way.
chriselst wrote: in which case he has told us to kill you, or your family, or he will punish you in the next life.
Playing devil's advocate here, I think they teach that you will be rewarded in the next life if you kill in gods name but I don't think they teach you will be punished if you don't become a suicide bomber.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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I thought that it has been shown that pressure is applied to "encourage" participation, you know like become a bomber or we will murder your family
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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You clearly didn't go to a Irish Catholic School! 
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OriginalGriff wrote: You clearly didn't go to a Irish Catholic School!
Correct. And I get your point. 
Just saying that religion, as a whole, is not what was suggested.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Religion is just one excuse: people can hate you because you paint your fingernails pink, or wear your hair long, or live in a bigger house then them, or don't live in a house at all, or like to drink, or have sex with people of the same gender.
Not all of the world pays any more than lip service to religion.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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A few of these are due to double standards, and some again due to religous beliefs.
The sh*t I complain about
It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem
~! Firewall !~
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You need to read the last line of the guys Bio. QUICKLY!
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Obligatory XKCD[^]
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Reminds of The Never-ending Story.
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So your saying the only point of religion is to make it easier to categorise the sides in a war?
Glad I don't have one.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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War, or any sides?
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Well I was thinking about religion, but it is also true that I haven't started any wars yet (although I did urge you start a revolt of the Welsh yesterday).
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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It's always the same, everyone wants to prove by force that he has the coolest imaginary friend
That's why i stay with Odin and Thor
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{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
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}
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HobbyProggy wrote: That's why i stay with Odin and Thor
Of all the imaginary figures you could pick from for cool, that's who you come up with? 
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Who would be cooler?
Mars & Mercury of the romans? I don't think so :P
if(this.signature != "")
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}
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How about Yog-Sothoth[^]? 
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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