Survey Results

17-Oct-14 14:19

If I have to make at least one choice; radiobuttons.

If those are checkboxes, then this implies that checking none is valid. "Best overall article", and this poll, should be radiobuttons, not checkboxes.

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]

_Maxxx_19-Oct-14 14:10

19-Oct-14 14:10

Eddy Vluggen wrote:
If I have to make at least one choice; radiobuttons.

not so - radio buttons imply a single choice - checkboxes imply zero or more.

there is no accepted paradigm for 'one or more' only 'zero or more' - but by convention checkboxes are used for both - with a 'none of the above' option taking care of the 'one or more' design - just like it was here.

PooperPig - Coming Soon

Eddy Vluggen20-Oct-14 1:29

20-Oct-14 1:29

_Maxxx_ wrote:
radio buttons imply a single choice - checkboxes imply zero or more.

I removed your "not so" as you are saying exactly what is stated there.

_Maxxx_ wrote:
there is no accepted paradigm for 'one or more' only 'zero or more'

Read the UX-guidelines. Google them. The paradigm has been there before Windows '95 Dead | X|

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]

_Maxxx_20-Oct-14 2:12

20-Oct-14 2:12

Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Read the UX-guidelines.

You seem to imply there is a single UX guideline? There isn't.

Eddy Vluggen wrote:
The paradigm has been there before Windows '95

Please show me where?

You said

Quote:
this poll, should be radiobuttons, not checkboxes

and this survey required one or more (not zero or more) answers to be selected.

With radio buttons, in every guideline known to man, they are used to select one, and only one, response from two or more options. So they would be useless for this survey, as the survey requires the user to select one OR MORE responses.

With Check Boxes the guidelines say

Quote:
Radio buttons are used when there is a list of two or more options that are mutually exclusive and the user must select exactly one choice. In other words, clicking a non-selected radio button will deselect whatever other button was previously selected in the list.
Checkboxes are used when there are lists of options and the user may select any number of choices, including zero, one, or several. In other words, each checkbox is independent of all other checkboxes in the list, so checking one box doesn't uncheck the others.
A stand-alone checkbox is used for a single option that the user can turn on or off.

(from here[^])

notice the phrase "including zero, one or several"

Well, in the case of the survey, zero was not a valid option (as there was a 'none of the above' option)

So there is no standard UI guideline (if I am mistaken, could you link one rather than asking me to google - google finds 1.7 million hits for UX-guidelines) for select one or more.

**EDIT** removed irrelevant text pertaining to 'all of the above' rather than 'none of the above'

PooperPig - Coming Soon

modified 20-Oct-14 8:26am.

Eddy Vluggen20-Oct-14 2:59

20-Oct-14 2:59

_Maxxx_ wrote:
You seem to imply there is a single UX guideline? There isn't.

Correct - it's not a single, there are multiple. You'll find the difference between a checkbox (0 or more) and a radiobutton (1) in most of them.

_Maxxx_ wrote:
Please show me where?

NO.

_Maxxx_ wrote:
So there is no standard UI guideline

It is a formal guideline for those in a Windows-UI, also used in other UI's as it has become an informal default. The color "red" is not the standard-color for danger, but A LOT people will recognize it is such. Using "green" where "red" is expected with the weak argument that there is no "real" standard might bot sit well with 90% of your userbase.

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]

_Maxxx_20-Oct-14 13:39

20-Oct-14 13:39

Eddy Vluggen wrote:
You'll find the difference between a checkbox (0 or more) and a radiobutton (1) in most of them.

Exactly. I didn't need to look, in fact, because I know the difference.

But the OP suggested that the survey should have used radio buttons and not checkboxes. And I pointed out that, because one or more selections were required, radio buttons would not do the job. That's all. The op was just incorrect.

Eddy Vluggen wrote:
a formal guideline for those in a Windows-UI,

CP is a web site, not a windows UI.

Eddy Vluggen wrote:
also used in other UI's as it has become an informal default.

What has? Using radio buttons to select multiple answers? That's not true.

Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Using "green" where "red" is expected with the weak argument that there is no "real" standard might bot sit well with 90% of your userbase.

Absolutely. There we agree totally. What I still haven't seen is some UI guideline saying that one should use radio button for multiple selections.

would you re-read your OP? You said

Quote:
If I have to make at least one choice; radiobuttons.

If those are checkboxes, then this implies that checking none is valid. "Best overall article", and this poll, should be radiobuttons, not checkboxes.

So "AT LEAST ONE CHOICE" - "RADIOBUTTONS"

Then, in reply to me, you say

Quote:
a radiobutton (1)

Which do you mean? "At least one" or "exactly one"?

PooperPig - Coming Soon

Eddy Vluggen21-Oct-14 2:01

21-Oct-14 2:01

_Maxxx_ wrote:
CP is a web site, not a windows UI.

Ah, completely forgotten; websites do not have to be intuitive to use. The fact that they run on a desktop in a browser does not mean at all that you have to present the user something recognizable; go on, hide that link under a picture, so that it is only visible when one hovers the mouse over it!

_Maxxx_ wrote:
Which do you mean? "At least one" or "exactly one"?

I'm not a dictionary. For radiobuttons, there "can be only one".

_Maxxx_ wrote:
What I still haven't seen is some UI guideline saying that one should use radio
button for multiple selections.

Checkboxes!

This is becoming too confusing.. Unsure | :~

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]

_Maxxx_21-Oct-14 2:48

21-Oct-14 2:48

I can see why you are confused, because you are contradicting yourself.

In the original post you said

Quote:
If I have to make at least one choice; radiobuttons.

If those are checkboxes, then this implies that checking none is valid. "Best overall article", and this poll, should be radiobuttons, not checkboxes.

my highlight.

The poll you are referring to required one or more selections to be made, and you said they should use radio buttons not checkboxes. You were wrong.

PooperPig - Coming Soon

Eddy Vluggen21-Oct-14 5:29

21-Oct-14 5:29

You're right, I said that.

_Maxxx_ wrote:
because you are contradicting yourself.

Ah, so the thread is not about clarification, but merely to pinpoint the inconsistency?

_Maxxx_ wrote:
The poll you are referring to required one or more selections to be made, and
you said they should use radio buttons not checkboxes. You were wrong.

Yeah, that happens.

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]

One doubt!!!

Sibeesh KV17-Oct-14 5:45

Sibeesh KV

17-Oct-14 5:45

"Choose all that you think will apply to you over the next 12 months"
And the last option is "None of these apply to me" . Then how i can select all of em ???

So much complexity in software comes from trying to make one thing do two things.
Sibeesh

Answer 'em all!

MacSpudster15-Oct-14 6:03

MacSpudster

15-Oct-14 6:03

For, none of us can truly predict the future!

Re: Answer 'em all!

_Maxxx_19-Oct-14 14:11

Coding, coding and coding

19-Oct-14 14:11

I knew you were going to say that

PooperPig - Coming Soon

Andres Cassagnes14-Oct-14 1:35

Andres Cassagnes

14-Oct-14 1:35

Besides my work developing embedded systems, I will be programming lot of things.
Programming becomes my work AND my hobbie... I think I need more social activities, so lets add some social network interactivity to my apps

Ingo15-Oct-14 2:45

Ingo

15-Oct-14 2:45

Andres Cassagnes wrote:
Programming becomes my work AND my hobbie

Nerd! Everywhere I look I see nerds! Even in the mirror! WTF | :WTF:

SharePoint Consultant and Developer at acocon
Author of Primary ROleplaying SysTem

I'm the ninth in a row of seven!

Chris Maunder15-Oct-14 5:39

Chris Maunder

15-Oct-14 5:39

Andres Cassagnes wrote:
Programming becomes my work AND my hobbie

Amen brother.

cheers
Chris Maunder

_Vitor Garcia_15-Oct-14 23:52

_Vitor Garcia_

15-Oct-14 23:52

C3D117-Oct-14 3:57

C3D1

17-Oct-14 3:57

A few days ago someone asked me what's my job.
So i answered "Software Developer".
Then she asks back "and what are your hobbys", i answered "Software Development"
She looked at me, smiled and sayed "oh, i see - a full-time-nerd". She laughed and walked away Poke tongue | ;-P

...crazy relatives... Big Grin | :-D

Andres Cassagnes17-Oct-14 4:03

Andres Cassagnes

17-Oct-14 4:03

I never thought about it in that way. I'll add 'full-time-nerd' to my resume or my linkedin profile, it's excellent

Mostly...

Joan M13-Oct-14 20:12

Joan M

13-Oct-14 20:12

Robots, CNC, PLC... a little bit of Visual C++ to make HMI (GUI) and mostly in industrial computers...

Some bacon from time to time and some CListCtrl...

Cool | :cool:

[www.tamautomation.com] | Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing.
[YouTube channel]

Slacker00714-Oct-14 1:05

Slacker007

14-Oct-14 1:05

Joan Murt wrote:
Some bacon from time to time and some CListCtrl...

Glad to see someone is paying attention to detail. Thumbs Up | :thumbsup:

Nelek16-Oct-14 1:38

Nelek

16-Oct-14 1:38

Joan Murt wrote:
Robots, CNC, PLC

Same for me

Joan Murt wrote:
a little bit of Visual C++ to make HMI (GUI)

We go for WinCC / Zenon and so on

Joan Murt wrote:
mostly in industrial computers

Server-Client to communicate with PLC's, OPC...

It seems we work in the same area. I thought I was the only one

M.D.V.

If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

Joan M19-Oct-14 20:26

Joan M

19-Oct-14 20:26

Which robot brands and CNC are you using? and which kind of applications are you making?

Here I'm working with ABB and KUKA and in terms of PLC/CNC I do use Beckhoff.
I'm making grinding and polishing machines mostly and our programs are special in most cases as we prepare the robots and CNCs to interact with our machines and the end user which will be the one programming it. i.e. making a big api to allow him/her to interact with the machine and make programs...

Nelek wrote:
It seems we work in the same area. I thought I was the only one

Yes, it's not quite frequent here in Green Alien | [Alien]

's land to find people that work in the industrial IT sector.

[www.tamautomation.com] | Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing.
[YouTube channel]