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Dump Access. SQL Server is equally as easy once you get past the separation of Data Storage/Retrieval and UI and the change will immediately put you in a different class of developer.
WPF sucks, Start with Win Forms to learn the fundamentals of saving and retrieving data so you are comfortable before you move to WPF and do everything Bass Ackwards.
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Yeah, I've played with SQL Server before.
I had built myself a little website with SQL Server 2000 as the backend and implemented CRUD Data Access layer to/from the DB, using Stored Procedures etc.
However, that was a while ago, so I'll have to do a bit of re-learning!!
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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1.21 Gigawatts wrote: I'll have to do a bit of re un-learning!!
FTFY.
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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Is there an easy way to create reports as powerfully as you can using Access/Word combo? Using stuff like the following it was very simple to create/open Word documents and get customized printouts quickly. Opening an existing Word document with bookmarks in it allowed the creation of customized letters/reports per individual which was quite impressive by my standards, and I've never seen anything to indicate it is that easy in SQL.
'Fill in the address block:
Dim BMRange As Range
Set BMRange = wordApp.ActiveDocument.Bookmarks("AddressBlock").Range
BMRange.text = addressBlock
Using this approach in a Physical Therapy staffing company I made reports per therapist of all the documentation they needed, and work they needed to get done, and filled in anything that could be automated. It was an impressive single-button paper shooter-outer!
Sorry for the programming question, but you opened up my curiosity again and it has bugged me for a while.
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Yes, there are easy ways to create report. DevExpress is a lot better than Crystal Reports. Unf. the situation your described is not easy at all!
You have created a fragile system that "works" and required institutional knowledge.
1) Is Word Installed
2) Is it the correct version or Work
3) Did Word Hang
4) The user changed all of the Book Marks and it doesn't work anymore
5) etc.
The visual design of the reporting is easily able to be accomplished via reporting tools, SSRS, Crystal, xtraReports but has the benefit of being managed within the environment and through Source and Version management. A one-owner shop that never has to worry about someone else changing something is a lot different from designing a report in a company with 15,000 employees that rotates employees more often than I rotate my sheets.
In all honesty, the toughest question to answer is: Can this be maintained. Not how many lines of code did it take?
It is really hard to write up any appropriate thesis with a defense against Access and Word in the space of a comment but I have used Access and Word in the before the before and I don't know so that is probably defense enough.
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Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote: Unf. the situation your described is not easy at all!
For a small shop, it is very easy (I would never be so stupid as to give regular users access to the forms!), but I won't argue that it is inappropriate for something larger. You haven't really made me think that any of the pro reporting tools have all the power of Word, and how it can be integrated with Access, and that is my fundamental question.
For instance, how easy is it to create reports that look like an informal letter? And maybe even incorporate background watermarks or other artwork as Word can do? Maybe the simplest example would be:
Dear Mr. Rogers,
We've noticed that you've failed to supply us with X, Y, and Z. We need X by Date1, and Y by Date2. The remaining item(s) don't have a specific due date, but we would appreciate receiving them at your earliest convenience...
Even with 'X,' 'Y,' and 'Z' coming from different databases, and changing the Mr/Mrs/Ms/Dr salutation, I can see doing this fairly easily with Word/Access. If you say "Yes, it is easy with the SQL report builders" to this specific example my curiosity will be sated! I've just never seen any examples of this online anywhere. Everything I've found shows tables being output, not something that has the nuance of the above. Thanks!
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Fairly trivial. The technique I use in all of the tools is to embed a {0} through {1} so I can use the String.Format method, but it is just as easy to add a token. Crystal Reports, however, lets you embed drag and drop fields inside the report making it even easier. Not sure if there is a direct equivalent in the others.
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Gotta go with Ennis on this, Office and Access do work well together and can be tightly integrated but they are designed as productivity tools. They should never be used for anything other than personal use.
They should absolutely NEVER be used in a multi user environment and certainly not in a serious development solution. The first time you run up against the incompatible version issue will stand as a harbinger of the future.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote: WPF sucks, Start with Win Forms to learn the fundamentals of saving and retrieving data so you are comfortable before you move to WPF and do everything Bass Ackwards.
You can't be serious!!
I did WinForms for 25 years, and WPF for the last 5, and I will NEVER again touch WinForms. It's archaic, outdated, and everything you want to do is a PITA compared to WPF.
WPF is hands down a much better tool than WinForms. I design UI's now that I could only dream about back then.
As far as "learning the fundamentals" - fundamentals of what? Programming? You don't need WinForms or WPF for that.
"before you move to WPF and do everything Bass Ackwards." - What in WPF is backwards??
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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When I say learning the fundamentals, there are a lot of "user interaction" type items that are far more simple in Windows Forms. It is the simplicity of the tool that I like. WPF adds, complexity, which for certain individuals on certain mindsets may be great. But for a user that designed a system in Access I would never recommend WPF as the next step.
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So you would recommend he step back instead of forward? Learn an outdated tool that is no longer mainstream and he wouldn't find a job in instead of a modern more capable tool that is widely used?
There is zero logic in this.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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I like WPF - it definitely seemed like a step forward - but there is a question mark over its future that a lot of developers (myself included) feel uneasy about.
It's summed up by Peter Bright in his article at over at Arstechnica:
"The situation for developers using the WPF graphical framework was similar. There have been rumors that it has been cancelled and the team that worked on it disbanded, but there was never any positive confirmation from Microsoft and little or no light shed on the framework's future, if it even had one. Again, developers made the investment in WPF, and they were left in the lurch. The same is true for developers using the XNA game framework (which, unlike WPF, has been killed off) and arguably even .NET as a whole."
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Oxford and Cambridge say "Aye!" 
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Good to know the British agree.
Perhaps when they sober up they will tell us what they agree with? 
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Once upon a time, there wsa a strike. A miner's strike. The leader was Arthur Scargill. He lost.
A few years later, a comedy troupe made a film called 'Strike!', which was all about a fictional attempt by Hollywood to make a film about the strike.
Arthur would be played by 'Al Pacino' who would insist on turning Scargill into a victorious hero.
When Scargill rides a motorbike to parliament in a last ditch attempt for peace, he makes a 'common man' speach to the members. They all say 'Aye!' in American accents, except for the member for 'Oxford and Cambridge'(!) who has a plummy English accent as this might actually be English.
It was a funny film. Look it up on You Tube. 
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The initial learning curve for WPF is pretty steep but having a book should give you a jump-start.
After that, it's all fun and games
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I have the same book from 2007. (3.0) I only got through the second chapter before losing interest. One of these days I do intend to try it again. At least now MS includes the designer with VS. Good luck!
There's nothing wrong with using Access for small and simple applications particularly for single-user apps...unless you already have SQL Server installed that is. 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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kmoorevs wrote: There's nothing wrong with using Access for small and simple applications
Indeed - it is quite a powerful tool, although it is far too easy to produce VBA spaghetti code and the lack of certain controls as standard (like a List View) is a bit annoying.
Going from coding up an Access Form to developing a little App in C# was just a world of difference, C# allows you to be so neat and concise!
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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1.21 Gigawatts wrote: So, I've just bought "WPF 4.5 Unleashed" by Adam Nathan,
Waste of money , as I think there are some really excellent series here on CP regarding WPF. Not saying the book is bad or anything.
1.21 Gigawatts wrote: WPF 4.5 Unleashed
I'd put it back on the leash, get out the shotgun and kill it. 
Marc
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Ahh!! Don;t say that!
The book got recommendations from our own Sacha Baber and Pete O'Hanlon - so I thought it must be a good start!!
(But I will venture into CP articles I'm sure when something doesn't quite gel in me noggin!!
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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1.21 Gigawatts wrote: The book got recommendations from our own Sacha Baber and Pete O'Hanlon
Like I said, I wasn't diss'ing the book at all. Just poking at you.
Marc
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I know I know!
The articles on Code Project have always helped and amazed me over the years - so many talented and dedicated people!
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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Ohh yes, I intend to use Sacha's articles as well!
Thanks!
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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Hey Gigs...
Start here: WPF/MVVM Quick Start Tutorial[^]
I have done both Winforms and WPF and I have to say I like having a WPF codebase to maintain much more than a Winforms codebase to maintain.
Databinding in WPF is a stellar experience. I've done one commercial product with it and it's a snap to maintain.
WPF is very different though.
If you haven't done a lot of winforms, you might be in better shape, not having your mind ruined by taking all the shortcuts winform so graciously allows....
I like this article by Lapthorn very much, because he's very deliberate about skipping the whiz-bang "unleashy" stuff and concentrating on what basics you need to know.
Recommend you work through each example to see the evolution from wrong to right.... I did. Very informative hands on format.
WPF is a paradigm shift from winforms for sure.
The Hardest part for me was NOT looking for winforms equivilants in wpf.
("But it works like this in winforms waaah..." Just stop it already.)
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