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Super Lloyd wrote: Hey it's true, they look at it dumbfounded and say "it's unmaintainable" so the average programmer can't fix it, indeed!
If the average programmer can't maintain it then it isn't maintainable. The only subjective part of that is whether the average programmer can maintain it.
Super Lloyd wrote: What I sell to the customer, is not just humanely doable in a reasonable time frame with just jQuery.
Why are you selling to a customer?
And why is maintenance not part of the sale?
Super Lloyd wrote: Very tiresome!
Myself I consider it a compliment when someone says that my code is easy to maintain. That is because I realize (as been proven by numerous studies) that the initial cost to develop something can be anywhere from 50% to 1% of the overall cost to maintain it. And being a professional working in a business (not a hobbyist) and one who likes to be paid I keep the primary goal of a business, to make money, always foremost in my mind. Thus I at least make the attempt to help keep maintenance costs down.
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jschell wrote: Why are you selling to a customer?
And why is maintenance not part of the sale?
Let's say I sold Facebook. It's not Facebook of course, but it is a little bit more dynamic. Things are popping here and there, there are multiple dynamic view of the same data. Mmmm... in an other word it's a SPA (single page application)
Now I just can't develop a SPA with JUST jQuery. At the very least I would need to write a library of utilities. They are against (home made) libraries. If my code is not all on the page is too complicated. And this... is... just... beyond... my capabilities...
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For me Keeping It Simple means that anyone in the team is able to understand, maintain and modify what i'm doing without too much trouble (or too much asking), and/or that it have less probability to go wrong, from this point of view, using one line of Knockout would be simpler, because it could fail less often than 20 lines of hand rolled jQuery that do DOM manipulation, and the maintenance team just need to learn a new tool to be able to maintain it!
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There is also the fact I just CAN'T develop what the customer now want (my prototype, a nice SPA (Single Page App) with JUST jQuery and NO home made library.
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The problem isn't KISS. The problem is people who are not keeping their skills up to date. If they were always keeping up to date, they would take some time to evaluate the issue and see that things have improved and they can avoid all those lines.
It is a problem to maintain because it looks like magic to them and they don't know the incantation. Chances are, they program by finding some code that does similar and modifying it as best they can. And there is a better than even chance these people don't really get what is happening there either.
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You can routinely replace 20 lines of jQuery with one line KonockoutJS?
Interesting.
modified 20-Oct-19 21:02pm.
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It's a bit of an exaggeration...
with one statement you create a UI which automatically change when your data change and at the end... you got your data just there, up to date... no need to reconstruct with some data attribute... no need for jQuery create dom or read value or wire update event.... saves a lot!
like doing WPF the WinForm way (use event on each property change and create control manually when needed) (this is jQuery)
versus doing it the MVVM way...
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They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'd say KISS is in the same eye. When you first encounter it, a lambda expression is anything BUT simple. I can see how, as you become more familiar with it, lambda can become beautiful. I'm not there yet, maybe I'm too old a dog. The simpler the code, the less likely to be buggy. So, a lambda statement should be less buggy. Handing it to someone who doesn't know lambda to maintain is a recipe for disaster.
Right now I'm reading 14 page printouts of SQL code without a single line of documentation on what it is trying to do, several to provide data to it, but no documentation on what it should return and it is all self-contained string manipulation. I think I'd rather be struggling with 80 characters of non-understandable code.
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My 10 year old nephew is currently on holiday in Florida.
When handed a twinkie he turned to his mother and said "What excuse for a croissant are these?"
Bless!
---------------------------------
Obscurum per obscurius.
Ad astra per alas porci.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur .
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Aah, they grow up so fast. One day a gurgling baby, the next a pretentious a***. 
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Oh man, what I wouldn't give to not have a rule against feeding trolls (not you, the OP).
Software Zen: delete this;
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Dave may be many things, but a Troll?
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You're safe, being from the U.K. You wouldn't ask that question if you were a CP member from the U.S.
Software Zen: delete this;
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I don't see how Dave is any more or less a troll when seen from this side of the pond.
I mean, he is a prolific poster, but his posts are not just twatter material, unlike some faux east Europeans...
"The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s." climate-models-go-cold
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Dave makes disparaging remarks about the U.S. and its citizenry at every opportunity.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Oh, I never noticed. I will be on the look out. 
"The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s." climate-models-go-cold
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Dalek Dave wrote: holiday vacation in Florida.
FTFY
Dalek Dave wrote: handed a twinkie he turned to his mother and said "What excuse for a croissant are these?"
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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RyanDev wrote: vacation
Bloody French infected colonials! 
C'est pas VACCANCES, c'est HOLIDAY! Putain de merde!
"The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s." climate-models-go-cold
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Munchies_Matt wrote: C'est pas VACANCES, c'est 'OLIDAY!
Fixed for cod French accent
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One hopes the little chap pronounced it correctly. Nothing worse than mis-pronunciation of the frog-tongue to our atlantic neighbours.
(And he should probably be chastised for not asking "What excuse are these for a croissant" but one can forgive them before the 11 plus, surely?
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Greetings Lord David of Dalek,
I'd like to suggest that whilst your relations are in Florida, they ask a local where they can get fresh catfish with hush-puppies. And, hope they don't miss out on having grits (hint: add lots of butter, and pepper) for breakfast.
cheers, Bill
“I'm an artist: it's self evident that word implies looking for something all the time without ever finding it in full. It is the opposite of saying : ‘I know all about it. I've already found it.’
As far as I'm concerned, the word means: ‘I am looking. I am hunting for it. I am deeply involved.’” Vincent Van Gogh
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Well, thank goodness. Here in United in the Dumbing-Down of America we have "crescents."[^] 
[edit] Although, I suppose I shouldn't be so hard on Pillsbury, as croissant does mean "crescent." Still...[/edit]
Marc
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My condolences!
---------------------------------
Obscurum per obscurius.
Ad astra per alas porci.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur .
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You do know the story about how Pillsbury named their product 'crescent' rolls, don't you? They were originally going to be named 'croissants'. As it turns out, there is a French ministry responsible for ensuring world-wide respect for all things Français. When they heard of the impending product release a conniption of epic proportions ensued, accompanied by a round of miscommunications and posturing by various officials. The end result was a narrowly-averted declaration of war by France against the United States in general, the Pillsbury company specifically, and for some odd reason, a baker in Hoboken New Jersey. To calm the ruffled feathers, Pillsbury offered to change the name. Tensions eased, and moms everywhere (well, in the U.S. anyway) began making pigs-in-a-blanket with wild abandon.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Gary R. Wheeler wrote: You do know the story about how Pillsbury named their product 'crescent' rolls, don't you?
Good one! 
Marc
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