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no, that was just the reason he had to leave
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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He is no beaver! 
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jeron1 wrote: Remember, at some point Simmons was a foreign name.
Simmons is a foreign name. 
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I tell it like it is. 
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its time to leave the let the majority rule. This is democracy made in USA.
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You think that is bad, where I am currently has decided to move away from programmers and outsource (sole source) to two companies in India both convicted of felonies in the U.S. for Visa fraud. We have so many people on site that are rotated out ... in fact, some of them were involved in the recent Visa Fraud case.
It isn't that there aren't enough developers in the United States but that companies think they don't need to have skill. Instead they outsource but don't insource the required staff to properly create specifications. So what you get is a large group of people that will say yes all the way until you hit a mountain.
With no offense to any person from India, when I was learning to be a pilot I was warned by numerous instructors, When you here some one with an Accent from India be on the lookout, they will follow the rules into the ground. As a pilot with less than 200 hours I have had three encounters which I would say, "I am glad I was on the look out" but nothing reportable.
Personally, I think outsource could be great but, I have yet to see a place where the programmers in house didn't spend the morning fixing the errors from overseas the previous night. I even worked at a place that gave the overseas people a "fake" environment and just did the work themselves because the offshore center did more bad than good.
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Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote: I even worked at a place that gave the overseas people a "fake" environment and just did the work themselves because the offshore center did more bad than good.
Wow.
Actually, wow about your whole post, but that last thing, that is just amazing.
Marc
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The general quality of work isn't the real issue though (that's for a whole other thread that will be roundly down-voted simply because CodeProject has been overrun by those very "programmers").
My complaint is actually the severely lopsided ratio of 3rd world programmers.
In the last year, they've moved the entire support department to India (40 Americans lost their jobs when that happened). They followed that up by replacing American programmers that quit with off-shore "resources", making no attempt to retain what were roundly considered to be key personnel.
Last week, I was ordered to hand-off some rather important dev work to Indian contractors, and the people that rely on that development effort are none too happy about it. I honestly have no feeling as to the suitability of the new contractors to even accomplish the task.
To add insult to injury, the principal dev on our flagship product has been performing knowledge transfer sessions to the same two Indian devs regarding all phases of development on that product.
Not only are they replacing us with Indians because they'll work for $0.25/hour, but they're making us help them do it. Before anyone suggests it, yes I'm looking for another job, and this is where they twist the knife, so to speak. I'm being contacted mostly (about 95%) by off-shored head hunters. Really? I've started telling them I will not discuss job prospects with off-shore recruiters.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: The general quality of work isn't the real issue
Then what is the real issue? 
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: In the last year, they've moved the entire support department to India (40 Americans European Immigrants lost their jobs when that happened).
FTFY
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: They followed that up by replacing American European Immigrant programmers that quit with off-shore "resources"
Must have made business sense. 
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: <layer>They followed that up by replacing American European Immigrant programmers that quit with off-shore "resources", making no attempt to retain what were roundly considered to be key personnel.
They quit so they were no longer available.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: Last week, I was ordered to hand-off some rather important dev work to Indian contractors,
Were you forthcoming with the specifications?
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I honestly have no feeling as to the suitability of the new contractors
Probably at least as competent as you or maybe more qualified. Do you posses any advanced degrees in computer science?
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: To add insult to injury, the principal dev on our flagship product has been performing knowledge transfer sessions to the same two Indian devs regarding all phases of development on that product.
Doing his/her job of making a smooth transition. What is wrong with that? 
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: Not only are they replacing us with Indians because they'll work for $0.25/hour, but they're making us help them do it.
Welcome to the real world. Although I doubt that Indians will work for $0.25/hour, they are smarter than that even if you don't recognize it.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: yes I'm looking for another job, and this is where they twist the knife, so to speak. I'm being contacted mostly (about 95%) by off-shored head hunters.
You should be flattered that they will accept you. Are you willing to work for $0.25/hour? Then you know that what you said about the Indians was pure bullshit.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: Really?
Really!
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I've started telling them I will not discuss job prospects with off-shore recruiters.
Your loss!
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: Walking around the office this morning, I counted name plates - five Americans European immigrants and 26 Indian/Pakistani.
FTFY
What is more depressing that there are 5 European immigrants or there are 26 hard working folks?
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I haven't been in a team in the UK where the majority is English for many years. Might have been in 2006, I think.
Mind you, as soon as I join a team, the proportion of foreigners goes up.
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Orjan Westin wrote: Mind you, as soon as I join a team, the proportion of foreigners goes up.
Are you from India or Pakistan?
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Nope, but I've happily worked with both.
Something that has struck me over the last fifteen years or so, however, is that any group of programmers from India is likely to have more women than a similarly sized group of programmers from Europe.
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Orjan Westin wrote: any group of programmers from India is likely to have more women than a similarly sized group of programmers from Europe.
That is a good thing. 
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His name is missing two dots, otherwise I'd have guessed he's from Sweden.
BTW, your link to ProActive Secure Systems fails with a "500 Internal Server Error"
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Jörgen Andersson wrote: BTW, your link to ProActive Secure Systems fails with a "500 Internal Server Error"
Yes, thank you, I moved servers and didn't update that web site. I spent 2 years working on it but ran out of money, story of my life, before it was completed.
I will remove the link. If I can figure out how?
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Jörgen Andersson wrote: BTW, your link to ProActive Secure Systems fails with a "500 Internal Server Error"
Gone.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Yup. I dropped the dots when I moved to England, as it was too tiresome to try to explain to people that it wasn't because I like heavy metal. 
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Our dev team in the UK has 1 Welsh surname, 1 Scots, 3 Irish, 1 Indian, 2 Pakistani, 1 Nigerian, 6 English (whatever that means), although that doesn't match the nationalities or skin colours, and doesn't tell you what accents they have.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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Well, you have been auditioning for the role of "endangering species" for years; looks like you finally found the theater, and the play.
As we say in showbiz: "break a leg."
“The best hope is that one of these days the Ground will get disgusted enough just to walk away ~ leaving people with nothing more to stand ON than what they have so bloody well stood FOR up to now.” Kenneth Patchen, Poet
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: Indian/Pakistani
In the same office sitting next to each other is a feat in and of itself.
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In our office we have Chinese, Indians and quite a few first gen. Russians. Problem occurs at lunch when food aromas woft through the air many very delicious, or when one wants to run up and down the stairwell at lunch and there is someone doing Tai Chi on one of the landings in the stairwell.
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Eggbert Bartholomew Bligh wrote: John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: Indian/Pakistani
In the same office sitting next to each other is a feat in and of itself.
Talk about depression. 
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Guess what? You forgot to count yourself, which makes the total count 32. There... how do you feel now? 
Seriously JSOP, look at CP, it's just hamsters working really hard, and Chris and bunch of other people are taking all the credit, while Bob still rocks! Who cares?
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