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glennPattonWork wrote: Yeah, I think I started the WWI thing yesterday
Hey man, that's not cool. I'm usually pretty tolerant, but starting world wars is where I draw the line.
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Like dude, I'm sorry man, I just thought...well it got out hand, you know man, one dude wants this one dude wants that... 
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Bergholt Stuttley Johnson wrote: the Boston Tea Party occured because us Brits LIFTED the import tax!
You may have lifted the tax on yourselves but you imposed additional taxes on the colonies.
The Townshend Revenue Act[^]
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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but that was repealed in 1770 3 years before the boston tea party
the point was that due to the removal of tax (even if in Britain) the price of tea in the colonies was LESS than it had been, in fact was actually cheaper than smuggled tea and it was this that instigated the tea party
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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Bergholt Stuttley Johnson wrote: but that was repealed in 1770
1) It was only partially repealed. The taxes on tea remained. 2) Smuggled tea (despite potentially higher price) had no taxes. The Tea Party was an act based on ideals. The colonists did not want to pay British taxes without representation in British parliament. 3) The Tea Party was NOT an effort to protect smugglers. 
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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thats debateable as the people involved were I understand those exact smugglers, however one of the main disagreement seems to be prominately missing, that being the law passed to prevent eastward expansion into native american land, I understand this was one of the biggies at the time yet seems to be overlooked
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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I think you need to read up on "The Sons of Liberty". Mostly lawyers, doctors and businessmen.
Anyway, it doesn't matter. We won the war so we get to write the history.
That's how it works - right?
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Bergholt Stuttley Johnson wrote: thats debateable as the people involved were I understand those exact smugglers
As it is with the vast majority of things involving humans it is never a simple explanation. Simple explanations exist because the complete ones do not and because ones that attempt to get close to complete are way too long to do anything but read once and then forget.
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Modified: by the time I finished reading and posted this, someone else had, too.
Not as all as simple as you described.
Boston_Tea_Party[^]
By and large, it seems their were disguised taxes, parliamentary shenanigans, tea merchants, colonists in general, and smugglers all having a wail of a time.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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it does seem that a lot of that seems to have been applied after the event and the actual act had a more simple cause (no problem in that, propergander is a vitial tool in any conflict)
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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It was more of a smoke-and-mirrors taxation.
Consider this in today's terms:
In USA, many states and municipalities have sales taxes and businesses are taxed on their profits.
In much of Europe, there's VAT's - so the consumer doesn't see the taxes in their face.
They're both taxes - and whichever form the tea tax was in, it was still there. The merchants who were given the franchises had low-cost tea, but for the other merchants, the tax was still in force. So, was that tea in the harbor taxed? It seams not - but tea was taxed - and this stuff given a special consideration had, in a way, emphasized the taxes paid by the less favored merchants (smugglers notwithstanding).
So - even if the tea dumped into the harbor was not taxed, tea was apparently still taxed.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Um, not exactly. it was changes in taxes without representation that was the crux of the situation. Also, Taxes were different for Colonials vs British Citizens. So they were jerking the taxes around in two directions. Technically you were correct. The Tea Party happened after they took the tax off. But the party was in response to the taxes being placed in the first place.
Just remember you can tax me as long as you tax every one "pretty much" the same and everyone gets and equal voice in how those taxes are applied. You get passed that and Americans start going for their guns.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
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maybe we should not have taxed you and not have defended you against the French either, seems you wanted the advantages without the costs, wonder how you would have faired trying to get independance from the French?
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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Bergholt Stuttley Johnson wrote: wonder how you would have faired trying to get independance from the French?
Seriously?! You call yourself British?
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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historically the French tend to hang on to its possessions by any means and are far more brutal in supressing revolts
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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Meh! It's very difficult for any colonial power to fight a motivated, organized army half a world away on the enemy's home turf. Especially so back in those days before air planes, radio, etc...
It is interesting to speculate how things might be today if the US-UK "Special Relationship"[^] did not exist OR if we'd somehow developed one with France.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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er no, the French Indian war was french colonials + Native Indians vs British colonials + local indians with both sides geting help from France or Britain had we not sent troops the French would have won.
as for the war of independance you would have not won without the masive support of the French and were lucky they didnt use that as a starting point for taking control, the French troops actually out numbered the american by 3:1 from what I have read (but please note title of post) and were better equiped and trained.
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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Bergholt Stuttley Johnson wrote: er no, the French Indian war was...
I was not referring to that war - only your comment about a theoretical American revolution from France.
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson wrote: the French troops actually out numbered the american by 3:1 from what I have read
Woah! I've searched and searched and not found anything to even hint at that. I've found estimates of 200,000 American soldiers involved (50,000 killed or wounded) but only about 20,000 French soldiers / sailors.
BTW - The only estimates of British soldiers I found were 250,000 - 500,000
I'm not disregarding the help from France. Their supplies and naval help were certainly instrumental in the outcome but it nearly bankrupted them and certainly was a factor leading to their own revolution.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Funny but I thought hindsight was always 20-20 vision. It looks like in this case. It is more myopic for where one is from?
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
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Movie Quote Of The Day
Sell me this pen!
Which movie?
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Die Hard
Every day, thousands of innocent plants are killed by vegetarians.
Help end the violence EAT BACON
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The Write Stuff
speramus in juniperus
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Very funny, I'll have to write that down.
Life is too shor
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You will need to buy a pen first.
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You can have mine. It is in mint condition. It has a very smooth texture and you barely feel it in your hand when you write. You can name it anything you want. It is the only one of its kind ever made that I bought, so it is really special. I can only sell it today as tomorrow I will be gone and unable to sell you this pen. As I bonus I will give you the ink for free if you buy now!
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