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@AmitGajjar wrote: say in programming from last 30 years or more...
I started programming in 7th grade, so that would have been when I was 12 or so. In August, that'll be 40 years.
Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote: programming in 7th grade
But were you employed to do so?
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: But were you employed to do so?
Well, in 8th grade I was taught how to program in the boot code for the PDP-11, which would crash frequently when the mag drive drew too much power. So, you could say I was "employed" for a very important task. 
Marc
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Does this[^] bring back memories?
For me, the earliest I remember was the DG Nova 3[^] - I think I started the PDP 8[^] at university quite a few times when learning it's assembler, but I've managed to forget all about that.
Them was the days! When the accumulator value was permanently shown - and changing - in LEDs on the front of the box! None of this wussy "rotating circles" to show it was busy, oh, no... 
Never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers
--- Serious Sam
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OriginalGriff wrote: Them was the days!
Indeed they were. Having been 15 right when computers became affordable to regular people, that was quite amazing. When I was 18, my gf's father was one of the folks who was figuring out what transistors were good for, back when he was in his early 20's. Crazy stuff.
Marc
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Not me; my first programming job began in 1989 -- VAX BASIC on a MicroVAX 3600.
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I started in 1965, almost 50 years ago, my how time flies when you are having fun.
Dave.
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Woow....
Thanks
-Amit Gajjar
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I don't think you've gotten very many good answers. I started programming in 1969, and I consider myself one of the young guys.
...I first got paid for programming about 1971 (not sure of the exact date, but I remember the occasion).
Windows 8 is the resurrected version of Microsoft Bob. The only thing missing is the Fisher-Price logo.
- Harvey
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You start programming when i was not born...
Thanks
-Amit Gajjar
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I've been programming professionally for 30 years but I'm far from being the most senior, skilled or smart programmer you seem to be seeking out.
/ravi
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I've been programming since 1979...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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35 years of journey.... really great to meet you here. And your contribution is really great.
Thanks
-Amit Gajjar
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The "journey" has turned into slogging through the mire of work environments where managers would rather pay off-shore "talent" to do my job. Add to that the ever-rising cost of tools and frameworks necessary to stay relevant in the diminishing job market, and the "advancement" of technology that makes your skill-set obsolete a week or two after you've become proficient in the last version of the latest "best practice", and I think you can understand when I say I'm ready to change professions to something where the tech has remained fairly constant for the last 50 years or so - like waste retrieval and disposal...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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I am running Windows 7, and I figure that I will continue to run it until it is no longer supported - and as long as I continue to use my notebook system. Perhaps if Windows 8.x or 9 becomes something decent, I will continue on running Windows.
But I have read that a lot of organizations are running Ubuntu now, so I figure that it should have reached a high level of user & installation ease. My idea of an easy system to install is to be able to download the installation package, and then be able to install into a newly formatted disk with no issues - like I was able to do when I very recently did a complete system rebuild (of my Windows 7) from downloading (of course, I had to supply the product key.) Is Ubuntu up to this level yet? I can remember in the mid 90's when I had read that Linux was easy, blah, blah, blah, but in actuality it was pain in the a@@. The one thing that Micro$oft has done quite effectively is create an easily installable package, and with the proper support for any issues.
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Download Oracle VirtualBox, fire up a VM, and try it out. All the fun without any of the damage.
But to answer your question, yes, installing Ubuntu is about as easy as installing Windows, its a LOT more user friendly than it was in the 90's and even more than it was in the mid 2000's.
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Ron Beyer wrote: Download Oracle VirtualBox, fire up a VM, and try it out. All the fun without any of the damage.
I think I will try that. I suppose that I would be able to do an install from a stick drive that would mimic having a newly reformatted hard drive.
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I have it at home, and I've installed Ubuntu in 3 or 4 machines, usually dual boot with XP.
I found it easier to install than XP.
Day to day use is similar to W7 experience: the computer does what you expect, and you have to type an administrator's password to install or upgrade software.
Have fun,
Pablo.
"Accident: An inevitable occurrence due to the action of immutable natural laws." (Ambrose Bierce, circa 1899).
"You are to act in the light of experience as guided by intelligence" (Rex Stout, "In the Best Families", 1950).
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It's complicated. There are a lot of little things to consider.
As a desktop, IMHO Ubuntu is quite good. Except the mobile/tablet like interface, which is a horror, frankly - I was in the same room with guys working on Linux and the curses "where the f*** is terminal?" were quite funny (followed by sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback).
Now consider if the software available is good for you. Office, codecs, Flash, ODBC, gaming, development - there is a myriad of things that may or may not be available in the quality you may require.
Let's put it in this way: on Microsoft platform you will find less quality tools, and certainly you won't download sources and build yourself to just do it. But what is lacking in numbers you'll find it in quality: you won't find a Visual Studio if you need it, or Office (sorry, Open Office is no match for MS Office). That does not mean you won't do it with OO: if that's ok for you, by all means go for it.
I'd sum up Windows vs Ubuntu in this way:
1. System updates
Ubuntu: lots of packages; pros: pretty much same as on windows; cons: too many  , maybe have to filter a little
Windows: just what MS offers; pros: no need to know much about updates; cons: none
Verdict: pretty much equivalents. More choices on Ubuntu, if needed.
2. Installations.
Ubuntu: sudo apt-get install <whatever>; pros: just a command; cons: you have to know package name, stay in terminal; perhaps maintain a list of ppa's for non-canonical things.
Windows: double-click on msi/exe; pros: click/next/next; cons: locate and download package.
Verdict: Ubuntu more maneuverable. Also Windows can be scriptable via WU api (COM, vbs), but you need to write it yourself.
3. Browsers
Pretty much the same. Certain websites do not support Linux (Quickbooks, for example - just learned this).
Verdict: if you are in the need for IE for certain proprietary/custom things, you have to dig if you can do it with Wine. Less problems on Windows regarding plugins (but NPAPI is dropped by Chrome, Firefox also are going crazy with blocking...).
4. Gaming
Ubuntu: pros: honorable support, but not perfect; SteamOS is gaining traction, but there's much to the top. cons: Many games not running (or not running ok) on Linux. Occasional driver problems from main vendors; keep watching what NVidia does, for example.
Windows: Number one gaming platform. Cons: none.
Verdict: Windows.
5. Media.
Not an expert here, but I suppose are pretty much equivalents. Maybe occasional driver/apps glitches on Linux (the subject is vast and better dealt perhaps by someone who is actively working with media).
Verdict: draw.
6. Office. Repeating what I said before: MS is still better. Depending on what you need. Better collaboration with others (many times I was asked by various people about convertors, formats etc. - things that discourage the regular *other* user). You want to just send the file, not to spend 15 minutes on chat or remote installing OO to MS conversion tools on an ancient XP.
Verdict: Windows.
7. Development.
Ubuntu: pros: you can do what you want; cons: harder to work on; debuggers are weak.
Windows: pros: VS and others are top of the line; console also available; cons: less options than on Ubuntu.
Verdict: Up to you.
There are many things to be said. These are just my 0.02 ideas.
Hope that helps.
Nuclear launch detected
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Cristian's response is great, I'll simply provide a two word answer to your subjectline question:
Still sucks.
You want elaboration? I think the hidden scrollbar thing on windows sucks. It takes mental and physical agility to position the cursor so the scrollbar shows up. Distracts from what I'm trying to do.
Look at the difference between, for example, the RubyMine IDE in Windows vs. Ubuntu. In Windows, the fonts are small and consistent. In Ubuntu, the fonts are all over the place, the tree control sucks (and I still haven't figured out how to make the font for the tree control smaller).
Personally, I also can't stand the Mac'ish application menu bar at the top of the screen. Of course, that would be fine if it were consistent! But no, some apps put their menus in their own windows, leading to more UI confusion.
So, at the end of the day, I do all my Ruby on Rails development in Windows. The only thing I have Ubuntu around for is the command window where I have to Telnet into some stuff that I haven't figured out how to set up the security keys for in PuTTY for Windows.
However, as someone else posted - download Oracle's Virtual Box and an Ubuntu VM, and you're all set to explore the wonderful world of open source. Even from scratch, and Ubuntu install is very simple.
Marc
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I have it loaded on a VM using VirtualBox and it's a breeze to install and use.
I just recently got serious with it because I ordered a Beagle Bone Black and it has a version of Linux on it and I want to do some development.
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Ten hours into 2014 here at GMT +0700.
Bob is ... errr ... rather the worse for wear this am, but I'm taking him for some local coffee that is also used to tan leather, and cure psoriasis, and he asks me to tell you that he's having a great time in the Land of Smiles, and he's sure ... if he could remember it ... that he had a sensational New Year's Eve [^].
“I'm an artist: it's self evident that word implies looking for something all the time without ever finding it in full. It is the opposite of saying : 'I know all about it. I've already found it.'
As far as I'm concerned, the word means: 'I am looking. I am hunting for it. I am deeply involved.'”
Vincent Van Gogh
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Send him out our way at GMT-0700 for a taste of the dog... We'll cure him!
The locals are firing all manner of small arms tonight, in celebration I presume. I'm tempted to fire the .30-06 into the ground to demonstrate what a real gun sounds like, but I think I'll refrain in order to demonstrate what mature wisdom sounds like.
Happy New Year to all! 
Will Rogers never met me.
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Roger Wright wrote: Send him out our way ... for a taste of the dog
We eat dogs in Thailand.
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I apologize if this is too much about programming, but I didn't know where it would fit in the programming forum. It's about note-taking in tech books, not a particular language. If it's still bad, please let me know.
Over the past 4-6 weeks, I've been reading this 1000+ pg book trying to learn more about C#.
It's come to me that my method of absorbing information from this book (and perhaps tech books in general) is ineffective (either that or just slow as a snail). I've only been typing up the programs from this book if the topic was 100% new to me (the programs come with the book, so no need to type things up if you know the material in question). When I type out notes on what's going on alongside typing out the programs, I'm realizing that I'm just saying what's in the book, but shortened. So, I'm like a bad copy/paste function. Typing things out in my own words helps me recall things a little better, but not enough to justify the time I'm burning. It can sometimes take me a 90 minute study block to clear 5 pages (that's typing up a program AND notes, but still).
My method sucks, so I was wondering how you guys approach this type of thing. Do you just do the programs and comment as much as possible? What approach do you take to notes?
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