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That is brilliantly unambiguous, John, and certainly deserves an up-vote !
And now, just between us, please share how you really feel.
bill
"What Turing gave us for the first time (and without Turing you just couldn't do any of this) is he gave us a way of thinking about and taking seriously and thinking in a disciplined way about phenomena that have, as I like to say, trillions of moving parts.
Until the late 20th century, nobody knew how to take seriously a machine with a trillion moving parts. It's just mind-boggling." Daniel C. Dennett
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: "senior recruiters"
They're using recruiters from the old codgers senior home to find programmers.
You have to speak loud enough so they can hear you and you need to use at least a 24pt font in bold for them to read.
I know, that will make your 3 page resume at least 15 pages again, but they would have fallen asleep before reading the first page any way.
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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You are wasting your time. I am looking for pastures new right now and it is frustrating but venting at recruiters is both a waste of time and may, believe it or not, stop you from getting a great role. Why? Because as inefficient as they are when it comes to eye-balling resumes (which, by the way, they do not actually do) it might just be that if you are responsive and show interest and keep in touch they may be more likely to properly read your resume and, subsequently, properly match it to a job that you could walk to. I used to get all crusty and in their face like you but times have changed and so, incredibly, have they. I now try and call each one and have a quick chat. Most of the time they don't have anything but now and again I talk to someone who says "well, I can see that won't fit but I do have something else...". Looking for a new role is a full time job and a chance to network. Try it: you might be surprised.
(on the other hand, you may get terribly disappointed and then you'll blame me and you have many, many guns and I don't and, oh sh*t, here he comes!!!) 
ps If they say they have something in the valley, do let me know...
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection
nils illegitimus carborundum
me, me, me
me, in pictures
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It works both ways. They make quite a bit of money for everyone they place, and they really can't afford to piss too many people off. Besides, it's the principal of the thing. Why should I contribute to a company who off-shored their recruiting jobs?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: Why should I contribute to a company who off-shored their recruiting jobs?
Because you want to work and they may have a the job you want? This feels like you're cutting your nose to spite your face. Yes, they are parasites but they do provide a service (however poorly many of them do so). I have worked with one or two agents for well over 10 years (in the UK) and they are superb. I've only been back here a couple of years so still trying to figure out how they are different.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection
nils illegitimus carborundum
me, me, me
me, in pictures
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John,
I'm afraid you will find that a lot of the "recruiters" today are not professionals in the field they are recruiting for (not all, but most). Most of them (especially the new ones) have shifted from selling homes (which went south a few years ago) to that most lucrative recruiting gig. I truly believe that they feel it can't be that hard. They seem to have no clue how the industry works or what the words mean. I've had to educate a few, and it is very frustrating. Not like the good old days when the recruiters were true professionals that knew the business, not someone just trying to move bodies, hoping one sticks.
John Julian
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: Why should I contribute to a company who off-shored their recruiting jobs?
Considering it is HR that goes around handing out pink slips, I would be happy to see a portion of HR activity outsourced and the HR critters themselves handed pink slips.![Rose | [Rose]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif)
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Sadly, to say, HR is only the messenger of the bad news. The 'firing" manager is to blame. That person can make the decision, but cannot carry it out directly. They sit smugly in their office with the door closed as the employee receives the news and cleans out his desk. But, when you're the manager, that is one of the perks. Kind of like the Mafia. The boss gives the orders, but does not perform the execution.
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An advisor at the local unemployment office told me that most contacts you get from headhunters are not for a job they actually have. They are just looking to add you to their database so their searches can match you to a future job more efficiently (for them). I've found this to be mostly true.
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They're called senior recruiters because they recruit people who are so much more senior than they.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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awwwwwww you're getting soft in your old age!!
"mostly watching the human race is like watching dogs watch tv ... they see the pictures move but the meaning escapes them"
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: loosing ... most US kids nowadays cant speak the language either
Or write it.
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Thank God, I wasn't the only one who saw that. 
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Hey, ease up - he was obviously distressed when writing 
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: Or write it.
Cute! I noticed the misspelling, but missed the conjunction with a separate thought.
Hmmm, loosing my mind. Yep, a misspelling spell-checker still misses.
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You can loose your bowels, but don't loose your mind.
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Actually, losing your mind wouldn't be a good choice. With the first choice, I thought "diarrhea", which doesn't seem pleasant either, then realized that normally it really is your choice to do so.
On the other hand, I kind of like letting my mind wander at times which means loosening the reins on my mind, so, in fact, I do let it loose. I lose my temper too often, short term memory too, but don't want to lose my mind at any time.
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We got a job opening in Newstead, nice country town 250 south of Brisbane.
Your resume looks great, please apply online if interested!
Alternatively, you can get free McMeal ticket for every successful applicant you can recommend!
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There are those who are almost human and are capable of contributing to society,
through to those who are nothing but blood sucking leeches except for the fact that blood sucking leeches have a distinct medical purpose and the bottom end of 'Recruiters' don't.
I have had recruiters try to stitch me and their client up at the same time. But I've also had one guy who discreetly explained to me why I didn't get the job (my surname didn't sound Indian enough - I kid you not) much to his professional embarrassment, and then when out of his way to find me something much better.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
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30 years of Microsoft? Don't you feel like doing something else for a change? It wasn't until I got off my butt and started doing things with Linux and general software(as opposed to purely scientific) that I got interest.
I had to take a 5 k paycut one year, but the job was the most fun I'd had in years; the following year I got a 10k rise.
Now I do everything from automated Linux OS builds to ATL, and it is a lot of fun.
Oh, and I travelled 100 miles to get the job.
Venting may be fun, but realistic, even helpful, it isn't.
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I, on the other hand, tried linux and can't stand that thing. I found it too raw, too much configuration and concepts that I just don't like (fork/exec for example)
I'm Brazilian; English and other human languages in general aren't my best skills so I apologise for my less than perfect English...
"Given the chance I'd rather work smart than work hard." - PHS241
"'Sophisticated platform' typically means 'I have no idea how it works.'"
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It certainly does take time, it can be alien after windows.
I don't really use windows at home anymore. Linux is faster, safer, cheaper and I like it.
Trouble is it makes me very impatient and dissatisfied with windows at work.
15 minute boot time? And they charge money for that? Forget about it.
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You must be using windows XP, my desktop here at work takes 5 seconds to boot, and my notebook at home takes 15 seconds.
I did had a machine at work that took that long, but it was a 4gb ram, dual core WinXP (later Win7, but that only increased boot time).
About being safer, the first thing that my OS professor thaught us was how to break unix passwords.
<div class="signature">
I'm Brazilian; English and other human languages in general aren't my best skills so I apologise for my less than perfect English...
"Given the chance I'd rather work smart than work hard." - PHS241
"'Sophisticated platform' typically means 'I have no idea how it works.'"
</div>
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You mean running John The Ripper on conveniently 'obtained' files? With huge, custom wordlists, of course, as you're a professional. And this is after you've penetrated the root directory via the router, through both firewalls?
I ran a simple English word through a cracker for two weeks and it wasn't cracked, even though I had access to the files.
And while we're at it, how do you boot into a windows drive if the OS breaks?
Answers on a 2GB stick please. 
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No, i mean loading the shell and editing passwords on hand. I was surprised that trick actually worked on the servers of my previous employee.
And i boot on the windows drive using nothing more than the built in tools, that are alread on the drive.
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