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I have installed W8 on a laptop and as a developer I have forced myself to use it occasionally and start developing for it and trying out new things.
What bothers me the most is the start menu; if they would have left that I would have been more positive than now. Now searching for apps is a nightmare; you basically have to know they exist!
I installed a few apps and they clutter the metro shell and it's hard to find the new ones and existing ones between all those big blocks. It's just a waste of space!
On a desktop PC it should be the desktop that is the primary UI and on tablets the Metro.
I also created my first Metro app; I wanted to port one of my existing ones...
Only to find that a Metro app is just a sandbox; it has a limited set of API's you can't access: external assemblies; the .NET framework; Win32...
So what's the advantage??? What can you create as Metro app? A few puzzles; a simple drawin app; an app that queries some data from the web...
Maybe there's something I'm missing here but from the //BUILD presentations it certainly looks that way. So my app I can't port it to Metro.
Also when testing the Metro app; you run it, then you start it from the Metro shell and then you have to move the metro app out of the way; click the desktop button; go to Visual Studio and click the stop button.
If there's some other way; please tell me!!!
And the tablet is maybe the future; but for devs the desktop is the way to go. You can have two screens; one for VS; one for e.G browser and test space;... developing on a tablet? hmmmm... no way!
For the record; I like Metro on a tablet/Windows Phone but not for desktop PC's.
I really hope they listen to their users and tweak some stuff because like it is now I think it will get a huge backlash. 
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nick_journals wrote: Also when testing the Metro app; you run it, then you start it from the Metro
shell and then you have to move the metro app out of the way; click the desktop
button; go to Visual Studio and click the stop button.
If there's some other
way; please tell me!!!
You can terminate any Metro app by moving the mouse to the top of the screen (you'll see the pointer change to a hand), click and hold, then drag to the bottom and release.
You can also move the mouse to the upper left corner of the screen and the last app you were running (including the desktop) will pop up as a thumbnail. Clicking on it will take you to it without returning to the Start screen. If that wasn't the app you were looking for, slide down and the rest of your running apps will show up as thumbnails.
Hope that helps!
nick_journals wrote: searching for apps is a nightmare
From the Start screen, start typing. That kicks you into the search interface. Or am I not getting your point?
nick_journals wrote: What can you create as Metro app?
I am delving into that now, but I can't answer your points since I'm not that far into it. I'm working to wrap my head around the way things work. I'm coming from a WinForms frame of mind rather than WPF/Silverlight, so I'm trying to keep my head from exploding.  I'm looking at the generated code for a grid application at the moment. It includes data access -- the data is built into a sample class, but looks to be easily swappable for whatever data provider you want. Based on what I've seen, you could build a complex data driven app (forgive me if I'm mangling terminology -- it's early).
Have a great day!
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Marc A. Brown wrote: You can terminate any Metro app by moving the mouse to the top of the screen
(you'll see the pointer change to a hand), click and hold, then drag to the
bottom and release.
You can also move the mouse to the upper left corner of
the screen and the last app you were running (including the desktop) will pop up
as a thumbnail. Clicking on it will take you to it without returning to the
Start screen. If that wasn't the app you were looking for, slide down and the
rest of your running apps will show up as thumbnails.
Hope that helps!
That's what I do; but even then the app kees on running and I still need to switch to the desktop + close it from VS. :-/
Marc A. Brown wrote: From the Start screen, start typing. That kicks you into the search interface.
Or am I not getting your point?
Indeed I do that; but you still have to know what you are looking for; in the start menu you can 'brwose' much easier through all the tools.
And you have to switch to metro to start searching.
When you have a start menu you can start searching on the desktop immediately and not switch inbetween desktop and metro.
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nick_journals wrote: That's what I do; but even then the app kees on running
Huh, that's strange. It should shut down within a couple of seconds at most (I've seen it take a second or two with my limited testing), unless you're doing a lot when it gets the signal to terminate. What's going on in your app's termination code?
nick_journals wrote: When you have a start menu you can start searching on the desktop immediately and not switch inbetween desktop and metro.
But the Start screen *is* the start menu. The mechanism is the same -- open the Start menu (or screen in the case of Win8) and start typing to find what you're looking for. That's what a lot of folks seem to be missing. If you don't use the Metro apps, the only Metro-ey thing you'll see is the Start screen and that only when you go to start something, just like you only see the Start menu in Win7 when you go to start something.
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Hey Marc
Marc A. Brown wrote: Huh, that's strange. It should shut down within a couple of seconds at most
(I've seen it take a second or two with my limited testing), unless you're doing
a lot when it gets the signal to terminate. What's going on in your app's
termination code?
I don't do anything in the termination code; the application doesn't have any logic as I was stuck when I found out I couldn't access the .NET FW/windows API's... Very weird that it works at your side then.
It's a clean install; I'll do some more experimenting tonight.
Marc A. Brown wrote: But the Start screen *is* the start menu. The mechanism is the same -- open the
Start menu (or screen in the case of Win8) and start typing to find what you're
looking for. That's what a lot of folks seem to be missing. If you don't use the
Metro apps, the only Metro-ey thing you'll see is the Start screen and that only
when you go to start something, just like you only see the Start menu in Win7
when you go to start something.
Well maybe then it needs more getting used to; and that's one of the reasons I also installed it so I would learn it and hopefully learn to appreciate it.
I'm open to new things but atm it seems like more was taken away from us than we got in return. And a lot of people think this way unfortunately.
And regarding the Metro apps themselves I fail to see what the advantage is if you can't access .NET FW/Windows API's/... it's just too limited/sandboxed.
Cheers,
Nick
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nick_journals wrote: Very weird that it works at your side then.
Very weird indeed. Hope you figure it out.
nick_journals wrote: Well maybe then it needs more getting used to; and that's one of the reasons I also installed it so I would learn it and hopefully learn to appreciate it.
I have wondered how many people who have said they didn't like it (a lot more vehemently than you have), just didn't take the time to use it -- you know, install, gripe, remove. I'll admit that I have the advantage of having used a Windows Phone for over a year, but I never had any real trouble adapting to it when I first picked one up.
nick_journals wrote: it's just too limited/sandboxed
I haven't gotten far enough into development to be able to speak on that. Perhaps you can do (most of) the things you want, but through a different path.
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Marc A. Brown wrote: I have wondered how many people who have said they didn't like it (a lot more
vehemently than you have), just didn't take the time to use it -- you know,
install, gripe, remove. I'll admit that I have the advantage of having used a
Windows Phone for over a year, but I never had any real trouble adapting to it
when I first picked one up.
That is very much true; and then you also have the Microsoft bashers which don't like it from the start just because they don't like anything from Microsoft.
Lots of people just say it sucks because they hear it from other people/websites/screenshots without ever using it.
Marc A. Brown wrote: I haven't gotten far enough into development to be able to speak on that.
Perhaps you can do (most of) the things you want, but through a different path.
I watched a few presentations from //BUILD and they were pretty clear that they wouldn't allow it or your app would be blocked from the Windows store.
And in VS I can't add external assemblies neither; it's blocked by VS.
I can only hope I missed some part or misheard and my experience with Metro is still too limited to be correct here.
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I feel like such a fanboi, going on about how much I like the product. 
By "a different path," I meant that perhaps the functionality in question would be in the Metro API in some form, not that you'd be able to get around the restrictions. I'm curious about whether you can build a Metro-friendly assembly that you could then add to a Metro app project. I wonder about this because I believe I remember seeing Class Library (or something similar) as a project type under C#, though I could be mistaken (I'm not near my home computer at the moment). Do you remember?
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There is one yes; it's called 'Portable Class Library': http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/gg597391.aspx[^]
It's basically one to share between the frameworks.
I am still investigating this further; I wasn't able to create one because this type isn't available in the Express version.
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I'm using the Express version and thought there was one available in it, but I may not be remembering right.
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Actually, I'm looking at the VS11 Express Beta now. Under C# and VB, there is a project type named "Class Library". It's description reads "A project that creates a class library for Windows Metro style apps or Windows Runtime components."
So, I'd guess you *can* include external libraries, but they have to be of this type. That still doesn't help if there's something you need that's not available in some form within WinRT, but it will at least let you reuse common code.
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You better install the full version; I did and now have a project 'Portable class library'.
There I can select various frameworks .NET FW; WP7; XBOX and based on the selections you make; it limits the number of usable libraries so that it can be shared.
I turned of WP7 and was able to access more classes in .NET/and win32 API and could add it to my Metro project. So that was positive
The only problem is that you can only access a subset of win32/.NET and the ones I created (custom native library that calls win32) doesn't work.
It just doesn't do anything; it calls it but doesn't execute the native code.
But at least that gives a less claustrophobic feeling when developing a Metro app.
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nick_journals wrote: You better install the full version
Yeah, the only problem there is that I want to be using the version that I'll use once it goes RTM. At this point I can't really afford to lay down the amount of cash I'm sure they're going to want for the "pro" version.
Glad you feel less closed in.
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You can display all applications by displaying the app bar and then clicking on "All applications" button. It will display all applications grouped so it is much easier to see all program from a given software that way.
And it display far much items per screen that way.
So for seldom used application, you can use that. And organize the start menu for easy access to most frequently used applications.
Philippe Mori
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NO!
Turned my desktop into a giant cell phone with no coverage. Even worse with no touch screen.
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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They are most likely change that in the final version; after all, that's what a public pre-release is intended for; to get customer feedback, isn't it?
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Tell us how you really feel.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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I kept getting funny looks when I was holding up my 23" screen to my head to make calls.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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You might have started a trend there. Before you know it everyone will want a 28" phone. 
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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They're showing their Apple bias. Bet they wouldn't have looked twice if it was your iPad.
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after installing the preview and playing with it ( interface totally sucks for anyone who is actually trying to work with it ). i can say that it needs to stay on the phones where it works great, but file the shell away as another windows ME / Vista learning experience. i have already told all of my clients to stick with windows 7 until windows 9 comes out.
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RagTopMan wrote: interface totally sucks for anyone who is actually trying to work with it
I disagree. I've been using it on my notebook at home as my only OS (obviously I can't get away with that at work) and have been doing "work" on it. I've been using Office, Quicken, Visual Studio, Zune, and both Metro and desktop IE (desktop IE only for those sites that require compatibility mode -- I prefer the Metro IE for whatever reason). I've found it quite comfortable to work with.
How much time did you give yourself before deciding it isn't worthy? And what kind of work were you trying to do? Serious questions -- I'm not trolling you, I'm genuinely curious.
RagTopMan wrote: i have already told all of my clients to stick with windows 7 until windows 9 comes out
Obviously you know your clients, but you may be doing them a disservice. I don't think the Metro UI will be going away. I doubt the desktop interface will be disappearing any time soon either, but it's more likely to be pushed farther into the background with each successive version of Windows.
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i am a contract computer programmer ( over 25 years ).
to be honest the pregnant icons look rediculous. trying to make your computer look like a cell phone, please
microsoft finally got windows right with "7" and now they go and dump it in the toilet for an andoid wanna be. what they should do is put everything but the metro tiles UI into "7".
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Um... android? Android?!?! How about Windows Phone? Android could only wish to look this good! 
Seriously though, to each his own. You don't like the tile approach for aesthetic reasons (at least that's what I'm getting from your comment), whereas I really like them for aesthetic and functional reasons. I particularly like the live tiles -- you know, the ones that present some kind of data (like the calendar tile that shows your next appointment or the weather tile that shows the current conditions). It turns my Start screen into kind of a dashboard as well as an application launcher.
Have a great day!
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People tend to resist change. I am sure near all of us have seen that with our own users. People resist change. Whether it is good or not.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
modified 19-Mar-12 20:54pm.
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