.NET (Core and Framework)

Dave Kreskowiak26-Jan-11 4:23

Dave Kreskowiak

26-Jan-11 4:23

IMHO, using the designer limits your options and creates a ton of "mystery" code that goes in places you're not aware of.

I never use the designers for datasets. I prefer to write my own code for simplicity and maintainability.

BTW: Databind is done all the time without using the deisgners. When you set a DataSource property to some collection or DataTable or DataSet, you're doing databinding. I can't believe nobody in your company knows about this.

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Dave Kreskowiak

Sander Rossel26-Jan-11 6:56

26-Jan-11 6:56

We never use the datasource property.
We always fill every cell in a datagrid or every textbox on a form programatically.
There's a bit more to it than that, and there's some benefits to it.
But let's just say we really never use databinding Wink | ;)

Databinding has always been a kind of taboo. Until now.
And the more I do with it (design-time), the more it becomes taboo for me again Laugh | :laugh:

Dan Mos26-Jan-11 9:23

26-Jan-11 9:23

If/when I use datagrids I make them readonly, and bind(set the datasource) to a
list/array/collection of something. And edit/modify the data through dedicated popup windows/user controls.

All the best,

Dan

Dave Kreskowiak26-Jan-11 11:07

Dave Kreskowiak

26-Jan-11 11:07

Naerling wrote:
We always fill every cell in a datagrid or every textbox on a form programatically

Wow. Talk about a ton of code that's slow to fill a grid and could all be replaced with a single assignment statement.

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Dan Mos26-Jan-11 5:36

26-Jan-11 5:36

Sorry for the long answer but here goes.

If you ask me don't use design time databing, hell even better(or worse depends on taste) don't
use datasets/datatables.

I had some experinces with datagrids and automated vodoo magic that were very unpleasant. I
just didn't have a clue at was the error was.

Since then I always create classes or structs/enumns depends on the job ata hand.
Anywho I always create classes that map the tables and/or business model and use
Datareaders to get the datas in those customized object models. It takes a little longer to code
but the benefits of debugging itself not to mention maintanability/scalability...
are totally worth it.

- You are in control.
- You tell it(the app/progra) what to do. Not some vodoo magic and pray to god it all goes well.

Maybe I'm beeing a little extreme but I wouldn't use for anything in the world in a real world app.
Sure some quick and dirty tests and the likes, yeah go ahead saves time. But real world apps NO.

Just my thoughts.

All the best,

Dan

Sander Rossel26-Jan-11 7:05

26-Jan-11 7:05

I was kind of thinking the same thing. But I do want to give datatables/sets a try.
We are now working with lots of classes and properties.
But it's a lot of work, especially if you have some master detail stuff.
Actually we're all kind of tired of having to type:

Textbox1.Text = datarow("field1")
Textbox2.Text = datarow("field2")
Textbox3.Text = datarow("field3")
...
Textbox50.Text = datarow("field50")

You get the idea Laugh | :laugh:

Luc Pattyn26-Jan-11 7:27

Luc Pattyn

26-Jan-11 7:27

Naerling wrote:
You get the idea

yeah, you really should choose more descriptive TextBox and field names.

Laugh | :laugh:

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DaveyM6926-Jan-11 8:29

DaveyM69

26-Jan-11 8:29

Dave

Binging is like googling, it just feels dirtier.
Please take your VB.NET out of our nice case sensitive forum.
Astonish us. Be exceptional. (Pete O'Hanlon)

BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn)

Dan Mos26-Jan-11 8:56

26-Jan-11 8:56

Something like txt1, txt2 right? Big Grin | :-D

Just think about the cost/type reduction. $Shucks | :-\$

All the best,

Dan

Sander Rossel26-Jan-11 9:43

26-Jan-11 9:43

Har har... Har Laugh | :laugh:

Using connection As New SqlClient.SqlConnection(My.Settings.MyConnectionString)
         Using cmd As New SqlClient.SqlCommand("select * from smartasses where name = @name", connection)
            cmd.Parameters.Add("name", SqlDbType.VarChar, 50).Value = GetUserFromPostAbove()
            connection.Open()
            Try

               Using reader As SqlClient.SqlDataReader = cmd.ExecuteReader
                  While reader.Read
                     Dim gridRow As New DataGridViewRow
                     gridRow.CreateCells(gridSmartAsses)

                     gridRow.Cells(gridSmartAsses.Columns("name").Index).Value = reader.Item("name")
                     gridRow.Cells(gridSmartAsses.Columns("age").Index).Value = reader.Item("age")
                     gridRow.Cells(gridSmartAsses.Columns("message").Index).Value = reader.Item("message")
                     gridRow.Cells(gridSmartAsses.Columns("funny").Index).Value = reader.Item("funny")
                     ' ... Up to about 20 columns.

                     gridSmartAsses.Rows.Add(gridRow)
                  End While
               End Using

            Finally
               connection.Close()
            End Try
         End Using
      End Using

That's just no way to fill numerous grids with 15 to 20 columns D'Oh! | :doh:

And I know this query looks like it will return only 1 smartass, being GetUserFromPostAbove() (and yes, that name IS in the table :p ), but you can see why we don't want to fill our grids like this anymore Wink | ;)

I never use the SqlClient namespace by the way, we have our own simplified company tool which is top secret! Suspicious | :suss:

So feel free to comment on the code as you see fit. I am here to learn as well Smile | :)

Pete O'Hanlon26-Jan-11 10:01

Pete O'Hanlon

26-Jan-11 10:01

Urghhh VB.

Please take your capitalisation out of our pristine, brace friendly forum.
Poke tongue | ;-P

I'm not a stalker, I just know things. Oh by the way, you're out of milk.

Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads

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Luc Pattyn26-Jan-11 10:09

Luc Pattyn

26-Jan-11 10:09

All those

gridRow.Cells(gridSmartAsses.Columns("name").Index).Value = reader.Item("name")

lines are identical except for a string, so you could "for each" them with the string pulled from a collection. In the end I would stuff the entire try block into a separate method, that is generic and needs to be written just once.

Smile | :)

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Sander Rossel26-Jan-11 10:24

26-Jan-11 10:24

So you'd pass the datagridview and two list(of string) (column names and field names are not always equally named) to a function called FillGrid or something?
Sounds like it would work, but then you'd have to iterate through gridcolumns and datatable columns D'Oh! | :doh:

And if you have some exception like gridRow.blabla.value = reader.Item(0) & reader.Item(1) it wouldn't work, or if you want to colour every row where (some condition) or... And we do that sometimes Smile | :)

Actually those were the advantages of filling each row seperately.
But I guess that's not possible with databinding either... Frown | :(

Luc Pattyn26-Jan-11 10:43

Luc Pattyn

26-Jan-11 10:43

If that was meant as a question, then yes you pass parameters for everything you want to be able to change from the outside. As always. And you can forgo exception handling inside the method, and leave that to the caller, as he is more aware of what should be reported if and when something goes wrong.

Smile | :)

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Dan Mos26-Jan-11 8:54

26-Jan-11 8:54

The real answer to your question is "That is the question".
Hope it helps. Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

All the best,

Dan

modified on Wednesday, January 26, 2011 3:14 PM

Sander Rossel26-Jan-11 10:24

26-Jan-11 10:24

No, that is the question... Laugh | :laugh:

Eddy Vluggen26-Jan-11 9:26

26-Jan-11 9:26

Naerling wrote:
Actually we're all kind of tired of having to type:

..how about generating it? Smile | :)

I are Troll Suspicious | :suss:

Eddy Vluggen26-Jan-11 7:09

26-Jan-11 7:09

Naerling wrote:
These controls can do a lot, but some of them require databinding.

To what, actually? I'm binding a lot from generic lists and array's, as a quick and easy way to display data.

Naerling wrote:
This is something I am not familiar with and neither is my company.

There's always MSDN[^] Smile | :)

I are Troll Suspicious | :suss:

Sander Rossel26-Jan-11 9:04

26-Jan-11 9:04

Sure there's MSDN, but they won't tell me to not use their designer features Wink | ;)

Eddy Vluggen26-Jan-11 9:12

26-Jan-11 9:12

Are you using the "Settings"-tab in the project page? That's a code-generator too Smile | :)

The page on MSDN describes databinding in a more broad sense then binding an ADO table to a grid. Your 3rd party controls might want to bind to CLR-properties. What does the documentation of the 3rd party controls say?

I are Troll Suspicious | :suss:

Sander Rossel26-Jan-11 10:42

26-Jan-11 10:42

We don't use the settings tab Smile | :)

And I'm not really against code generation as long as I know it is good code. But selecting two datasources for two datagrids (master/detail) (from the datasources wizard in the designer) generates 6 items on my form and SQL statements such as "DELETE from SomeTable WHERE (every field in that table) = (every field in that table-variable)" even if there is a PK on that table. If I switch datasources in my grid I could end up with identical items called 'DataBindingItem' and 'DataBindingItem1'. And if I use a BindingNavigator I can use a 'Save' button which gives me exceptions rather than messageboxes if I leave some values empty, so I'd still have to write all validation logic (even though it's known from the datasource).
So that's why I was wondering if this wizard for datasources is all that good. The documentation of our third party tool uses it all the time. Although they give some code examples using DataAdapters too.

Nice MSDN article btw Smile | :)

Eddy Vluggen27-Jan-11 7:10

27-Jan-11 7:10

Naerling wrote:
We don't use the settings tab Smile

That's a good start Smile | :)

Naerling wrote:
And I'm not really against code generation as long as I know it is good code.

You think that Microsoft would put a generator in Visual Studio that would generate code that would look like it's written by a student?

Code Generation is cool, as long as you know exactly what it's generating, and why. I'm using the settings-tab sometimes, because I know what to expect and I'm pretty sure that there won't be any surprises there. I'm not using the dataset-designer, because I'm not intimately familiar with the code that gets generated - it's a foreign architecture to me, and I'd be lost if something went wrong.

Naerling wrote:
But selecting two datasources for two datagrids (master/detail) (from the datasources wizard in the designer) generates 6 items on my form and SQL statements such as "DELETE from SomeTable WHERE (every field in that table) = (every field in that table-variable)" even if there is a PK on that table. If I switch datasources in my grid I could end up with identical items called 'DataBindingItem' and 'DataBindingItem1'. And if I use a BindingNavigator I can use a 'Save' button which gives me exceptions rather than messageboxes if I leave some values empty, so I'd still have to write all validation logic (even though it's known from the datasource).
So that's why I was wondering if this wizard for datasources is all that good.

It's doing more bad than good, most of the time. It's not been used in any of the shops where I worked, with a single exception where it was considered a nice tool to create prototypes.

Naerling wrote:
The documentation of our third party tool uses it all the time. Although they give some code examples using DataAdapters too.

I'd expect that there'd be an alternative way to load data? Otherwise it'd be useless with a tool like, say, SharpDevelop?

Naerling wrote:
Nice MSDN article btw Smile

Thanks

I are Troll Suspicious | :suss:

Sander Rossel27-Jan-11 10:40

27-Jan-11 10:40

Eddy Vluggen wrote:
You think that Microsoft would put a generator in Visual Studio that would generate code that would look like it's written by a student?

I've heard people talk about Microsoft stuff generating SQL queries that would put them to shame Smile | :)

We now use data-binding and datasets (in designer) for a proto-type too. But since my employers really want to do less coding and a less-skilled collegue can do all sorts of stuff in the designer he wouldn't be able to do in code I guess it's designer data-sets for us from now on...
I'm not 100% sure, just 99% Wink | ;)

Pro's: Microsoft generates code for you, it gets the data for you, it only updates rows that are altered, even my boss can do it, it's fast.
Cons: none.

<blockquote class="FQ"><div class="FQA">Eddy Vluggen wrote:</div>I'd expect that there'd be an alternative way to load data? Otherwise it'd be useless with a tool like, say, SharpDevelop?</blockquote>
Yes, you can use the DataSource and DataMember properties of a control. Last week a collegue was able to directly call a cell in a grid using 6 or 7 DirectCasts... I guess we'd rather use databinding Laugh | :laugh:

I don't know SharpDevelop or any other tools Frown | :(

By the way, if I would build up a dataset in code and I wanted to bind, let's say 50 controls to 50 fields, do I have to bind each one of them seperately? That would kind of be like how we do it now, except now we only fill the Text property of a textbox... Sniff | :^)

Eddy Vluggen27-Jan-11 11:29

27-Jan-11 11:29

Naerling wrote:
Pro's: Microsoft generates code for you, it gets the data for you, it only updates rows that are altered, even my boss can do it, it's fast.
Cons: ~~none.~~

Cons:
* Unexpected bugs within the framework
* Missing hotfixes/patches
* Limited in it's uses

Yes, it could be considered a time-saver at moments. Others claim that it costs more time than it's worth. So, the best idea would be to "try", create on with the designer and one with a reader using BO's, and compare them -use them when it makes sense Smile | :)

Naerling wrote:
By the way, if I would build up a dataset in code and I wanted to bind, let's say 50 controls to 50 fields, do I have to bind each one of them seperately?

That depends on the inner working of those 3rd party controls. A Grid might be able to deduce columns from the meta-data, but textfields, comboboxes and radiobuttons need be bound often by hand. Either in code, or by clicking together those mappings in the IDE.

Good luck Smile | :)

I are Troll Suspicious | :suss:

Sander Rossel27-Jan-11 11:49