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The purpose of a shared DTD is to established an agreed format between multiple clients. I don't see the purpose of the sort of repository you're proposing.
you should also abandon DTD's - they suck. An XSD is the way to establish schema information.
Christian
No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer.
- Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael
P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not
as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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If you implement an export-to-xml feature into your software, you will have to define a format for it. So instead of me re-inventing the wheel and defining this format (formally through DTD or informally), I was looking for an already defined format to re-use. Another advantage of using an already defined format, is that it can be used as a standard for exporting defects from one Bug tracker and importing them into another. There can also be an already existing XSLTs to convert it into different formats.
I would expect the format to look like the following:
<bugs>
<summary>
</summary>
<description>
</descripion>
... and so on...
</bugs> Regards,
Victor
phpWebNotes is a page annotation system modelled after php.net.
http://webnotes.sourceforge.net/demo.php[^]
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Yes, but why would competing products publicise their formats so that other products can offer easy export to customers leaving them ? And as you say, XSLT is a good tool for converting formats, although less so DTD, compared to XSD.
Christian
No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer.
- Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael
P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not
as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Christian Graus wrote:
why would competing products publicise their formats
1. If these products are Open Source products, then they actually publicise everything including the code, not just the format!
2. If the DTD or XSD is designed by a standards organisation. The same way HTML DTD are defined by w3c.
3. In some cases there are projects that are focused around XML/DTD. For example, I once saw a Resume project that defines a XML format to store resume information which is then used to different formats including HTML/PDF/...etc with different styles as well.
In addition to all of the above, there is HOPE  I was just checking before I go and design my own format. After all we are all here to learn and re-use whatever we can!
Regards,
Victor
phpWebNotes is a page annotation system modelled after php.net.
http://webnotes.sourceforge.net/demo.php[^]
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LOL - I'll give you one and three, excepting that the fact that one person defined a resume DTD does not mean that everyone will use it. But as you say, there is always hope..... :P
Christian
No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer.
- Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael
P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not
as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Christian Graus wrote:
Yes, but why would competing products publicise their formats so that other products can offer easy export to customers leaving them ?
Because, It is a requirement for my company to purchase 5000 seats of your product, if you want our buisness.
"I will find a new sig someday."
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Well, obviously if someone is forced to do it, that's another matter. But why would I force you to tell the world about the format you create for me ?
Christian
No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer.
- Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael
P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not
as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Christian Graus wrote:
But why would I force you to tell the world about the format you create for me ?
One if it is the world or just still private is open.
In my case data management and migration is a very expensive task. What if you go out of buiseness? I must have the ability to migrate the data I own. (The US supreme court did rule (for the US ok) that the company that uses the product owns the data not the company that made the software product a number of years ago.) I also have the right to share my data with partners that may not be using your product. So I publish my data in a format that can be shared and managed. You may very well have a private format that is used internally, but you will have a published format that is public and very perferably based on some international standard.
"I will find a new sig someday."
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Christian Graus wrote:
The purpose of a shared DTD is to established an agreed format between multiple clients. I don't see the purpose of the sort of repository you're proposing.
Bit contradictory that, don't you think?
The repository idea is actually been done for DTDs and XSDs (the concept is the same) and I think it is a great idea.
Take the medical profession for instance. They have a multitude of forms and data models. There are efforts under way to compile a central repository of XML vocabs for the medical industry. Then any doctor who needs to publish some finding can go online, get the right vocab and publish his work. Prescriptions, chemical models, gene models, medicine production chains, you name it.
Oasis-Open.org[^] is just the thing. Very useful.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
Everybody just wants to be naked and famous, Paul.
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Paul Watson wrote:
The repository idea is actually been done for DTDs and XSDs
The direct link to the site hosted by Oasis is:
http://www.xml.org/xml/registry.jsp[^]
There are several products for organizations to host their own internal schemas for internal and business to business usage. These are useful for validation of shared or submitted XML files for data handoffs.
"I will find a new sig someday."
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Paul Watson wrote:
Bit contradictory that, don't you think?
Not at all. I can see why if my company is going to share info with yours, we agree on a shared XSD. I don't see why our companies would want to tell the world.
Paul Watson wrote:
The repository idea is actually been done for DTDs and XSDs (the concept is the same) and I think it is a great idea.
Is it driven by people using it, or on an 'if we build it, they will come' approach ?
Christian
No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer.
- Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael
P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not
as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Christian Graus wrote:
I don't see why our companies would want to tell the world.
Think bigger than companies. Think industries. We already do share DTDs. Namely XHTML, SVG, CML (Chemical Markup Language) and a host of others. The whole point is so that two companies in the same industry can communicate efficiently between each other on an industry agreed standard. If we keep our DTDs locked up then they are pretty damned worthless, their value is far less.
Anyway, I believe in sharing schemas.
Christian Graus wrote:
Is it driven by people using it, or on an 'if we build it, they will come' approach ?
They provide the hosting space and industries then elect a committee to produce a schema or ten for the industry. The schema is then hosted on the site. Even just those two repositories I mentioned have thousands of schemas for everything from biometrics to graphics to automobiles.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
Everybody just wants to be naked and famous, Paul.
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Paul Watson wrote:
Even just those two repositories I mentioned have thousands of schemas for everything from biometrics to graphics to automobiles.
Yes, but do people use them ?
Paul Watson wrote:
Anyway, I believe in sharing schemas.
I think it CAN be a good idea, I just don't see why it should be automatic.
Christian
No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer.
- Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael
P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not
as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Christian Graus wrote:
Yes, but do people use them ?
Indeed. We actually used a standardised company stock information schema awhile back to share stock data between two companies.
Generally we are not large enough to be doing inter-company projects which require shared schemas, so we have not had much practice in it. But that one time was actually very interesting.
Christian Graus wrote:
I just don't see why it should be automatic.
You are right there. Certainly sharing schemas is not always the right thing to do. Take it on a case by case example.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
Everybody just wants to be naked and famous, Paul.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Yes, but do people use them ?
All of the larger manufacturing companies do. It is also standard in the financial industry. So yes.
Not schema but for an example look at the CAD industry. No one company makes all of any of the larger products they work with many suppliers and do not requirer the same software execpt for close partners. All of the major CAD vendors support STEP and IGES to communicate with each other. The ones that stayed proprietary only are gone.
Christian Graus wrote:
I just don't see why it should be automatic.
Depends on your industry. For mine migration and sharing of data is an absolute must. So we will not buy products that do not allow us that capability. You do not have to meet our requirements and we do not have to buy your product. Simple market driven events.
"I will find a new sig someday."
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Christian Graus wrote:
An XSD is the way to establish schema information.
You are correct here. There are some exceptions (mostly in publishing areas) but all new work is highly encouraged to use XSD's.
"I will find a new sig someday."
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Victor Boctor wrote:
or example, I am currently looking for a DTD that defines the rules for XML files that are to include bug information
Oasis-Open.org[^] is just the thing.
I did not see a bug/issue list XML vocab there, but you can always start your own and then host it on Oasis.
I think the idea of a XML vocab repository is excellent.
http://www.xml.org/[^] also has a repository.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
Everybody just wants to be naked and famous, Paul.
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I need a xml filter for Indexing services. There are any chances to find one that is working ?
Thanks a loot .
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can someone explain to me the differences between those two functions? in the simple examples i've been doing, they seem interchangeable. and i read the MSDN xslt reference which shed some light, but not really.
particularly, it says value-of will give me a string of the matched element. great. so that means if i have <element>TESTING</element>
<xsl:value-of select="element"/> will give me "TESTING". as will <xsl:apply-templates select="element"/> which, if there is no template for "element" will use the default template, right? and the default template is basically just outputing the value of the <element> tag?
but msdn also says value-of should give me a concatenation of strings if the matched element has a substructure. so if i had
<element>
<sub>1</sub>
<bleh>2</bleh>
</element>
<xsl:value-of select="element"/> should give me "12", right? well, not when i tried it. or am i misunderstanding? anyway, that's just one question i had. the actual quote from msdn is
"If the node returned is an element with substructure, <xsl:value-of> returns the concatenated text nodes of that element's subtree with the markup removed."
the real question is what's the difference between the two and what would you use them for?
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AFAIK, the docs are right about value-of, which is used to get a value from a node. apply templates is used to set a point at which the process of building a result will begin. They have different goals in mind, even if one can simulate the other in some circumstances.
Christian
No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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If you are ever interested in obtaining better documentation on XSL than what you get from Microsoft, Michael Kay's XSLT Programmer's Reference is a really good book. It's definitely a reference, not a "how to" book, and will give you examples of the different ways in which you can use the various XSL elements.
Sean Winstead
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Although it's worth mentioning that he has an unreasonable hatred of all things from Redmond, that is indeed an excellent book and my main XSLT reference.
Christian
No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer.
- Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael
P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not
as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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If i want to automatically remove the asp page from cache i use
<% Response.CacheControl = "no-cache" %>
<% Response.AddHeader "Pragma", "no-cache" %>
<% Response.Expires = -1 %>
Like this in html i use
How to remove like this xml file from cache.
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I have cache problems also, never enough.
How are using the xml file? Is it being transformed? If so output the html lines and it should work.
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How can I get the current line of a xml element / node ?
I am working with the MS XML DOM parser!
Daniel
---------------------------
Never change a running system!
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