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Well, to say the trueth, I don't really know anything about VC7's managed extension. I'm a serious C++ programmer working on embedded system -- that means .NET won't change my life in a relative long period.
Recently, Bjarne Stroustrup visited China. When he was in Beijing, I, represented a technical magazine, made an interview to him. I asked him about his opionion towards Managed C++ extension. I predicted a fierce criticize. However, to my surprise, he highly praised Microsoft's effort to merge C++ into .NET stream. As regard to the extensions, he said all vendors tend to add language extensions to interface with their platform. That's always the case, Microsoft didn't do anything wrong. He even looked for Microsoft submitting a proposal about some of these extensions to standard committee. But, he said, the first version of the extensions was not very good, he really hoped the poeple in Microsoft would do better with the second version.
That's it. Since I've no idea about the managed C++, if someone who know it gives some comment, I'd like to read it.
Thanks.
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mengyana wrote:
Microsoft didn't do anything wrong.
I second that, although I doubt there will be a serious migration to MC++, at least in the beginning. IMO, C++ programmers will enjoy the familiar coding syntax in MC++, but they will miss many benefits that traditional / native C++ offers, such as performance and flexibility (to name only a few).
mengyana wrote:
Since I've no idea about the managed C++, if someone who know it gives some comment, I'd like to read it.
Check Chris Sells' article on MSDN for a head start, there are also a number of articles in CodeProject's MC++ section. In addition, you may want to read the following CUJ article on Microsoft's vision on MC++. Standard C++ Meets Managed C++ [^]
Regards.
// Fazlul
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Why Managed C++ why C# take urrrmmm around 1hour to master? 
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Maybe some people preffer C++ syntax over C#. I know I do.
Why waste time learning when ignorance in instantaneous
-Hobbes
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.Net framework development paradigm changed many of the discipline and performance that C/C++ used to have. Bjarne Stroustrup is correct that each vendor has the right to add extension to the language. But Microsoft move is more likely to "push" developer into one corner, in benefit of its product, and C/C++ at the end of the day, would sacrify because future programmer might only know how to use a library, but never know how to create one. Once the DEPENDENCY is made, we all say good-bye to true software engineering, at that time, we probably call overself .NET engineer...
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An IDE with C++ devs in mind ? Are we serious ? VS.NET comes with three languages right now, of which two are invented by Microsoft. They're going to specifically target the THIRD language, the one they didn't write and to date are still the worst compiler for in terms of the standard ?
I don't think the IDE has any real problems, it's a big move towards looking like the VB6 IDE, thus telling us how little we matter to Microsoft in the scheme of things, but for all that, once you get used to it, I can't think of any place where the IDE is C++ hostile.
Christian
No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Christian Graus wrote:
Why is the top item now the IDE?
Because it both sucks and blows at the same time, perhaps? The survey was "what's important to us" not "what will MS give us".
What would be awesome would be Visual C++ 7. Not Visual Studio. Not Visual C++.NET. Just VC7. Take the VC 6 IDE (and the old help viewer), do any little bugfixes, drop in the updated compiler, ATL, MFC, and samples. Completely remove any .NET related elements. Release that as VC7. I'd buy that. I'd use that.
I know pigs will fly out of dark orifices before that happens. Doesn't change the fact that it's what I want.
--Mike--
Thing #9 to say when mad at work: "Therapy is expensive. Popping bubble plastic is cheap. You choose."
Just released - 1ClickPicGrabber - Grab & organize pictures from your favorite web pages, with 1 click!
My really out-of-date homepage
Sonork-100.19012 Acid_Helm
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Michael Dunn wrote:
Take the VC 6 IDE (and the old help viewer), do any little bugfixes, drop in the updated compiler, ATL, MFC, and samples.
Why don't you do it ? (and write an article  )
Michael Dunn wrote:
drop in the updated compiler
copy cl.exe, link.exe, rc.exe, midl.exe from the vc7\bin dir
Michael Dunn wrote:
ATL, MFC
redirect the MSDEV general include/source/lib dirs, point to the ATL7/MFC7 dirs.
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my VS.Net help system has decided that the "topic" for every hit returned in a search shall be "a". ie. i do a search on HBITMAP and i get back 338 rows, each of which is simply "a" - no location, no rank. this is how it works fresh from the install.
it hasn't really helped my productivity, but it's amusing to pretend that it's answering each search like the Fonz would: "Aaaaaayyyyy!"
-c
There's one easy way to prove the effectiveness of 'letting the market decide' when it comes to environmental protection. It's spelt 'S-U-V'.
--Holgate, from Plastic
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I always have problems with "Search".... I use the index any time I can, otherwise I tend to get 100 results unrelated to what I'm searching for, and if I'm lucky, there's one or two relevant results buried in there somewhere.
But at least when I search, mine don't all come up "a". Guess that's your problem. 
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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The two other things I wish they would do is take the developers that are NOT developing web/internet applications into consideration and supply VC++.NET examples in their "example code".
-------------------------------------------
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs,
Fix 1 bug, recompile....
101 little bugs in the code...
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Oh how I agree with that!
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it avoid anything SDK related - haven't you noticed 
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Yep. I hate this the most!
Even trying to get help on messages like WM_* sends you to ATL/MFC On* handler help.
Argh! Is there ANY way to disable MFC specific help? I tried to create filter with something like "platform NOT MFC" (don't remember the syntax right now), but it hides almost all PSDK help too. I HATE IT!
And even if your filter DOESN'T include MFC, simple F1 on any function will give you help on MFC member with similar name. 
And another thing: looks like Dynamic Help is hardcoded into VS.NET. You can close it, but it will reopen on the next F1 key-press.
Best Regards,
Maxim
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Marketing ploy, force E V E R B O D Y to use the freaking .Net runtimes, why oh why of why? 
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The .NET-related ones are all at the bottom of the scale.
Improving the dang IDE is at the top of the scale.
I feel good ![Jig | [Dance]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/jig.gif)
Too bad MS doesn't have the same goals in mind.
--Mike--
Thing #9 to say when mad at work: "Therapy is expensive. Popping bubble plastic is cheap. You choose."
Just released - 1ClickPicGrabber - Grab & organize pictures from your favorite web pages, with 1 click!
My really out-of-date homepage
Sonork-100.19012 Acid_Helm
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It's no wonder C++ developers care little about .NET. IMHO one has to be in a real hurry to try to upgrade some C++ code to managed C++, and there are other languages best suited for .NETting.
Joaquín M López Muñoz
Telefónica, Investigación y Desarrollo
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I am of the opinion that Buffer Overruns, and smiliar attacks, are the fault of the developer. For example, using ::_tcscpy or ::_stprintf when you should be using ::_tcsncpy or ::_sntprintf.
Would it not be better to have the compiler/linker point out were potential buffer overruns exist? I would much rather find out about them on my desk than in the field 2 years later.
Having the compiler/linker to insert code to help catch them after-the-fact is OK, but catching and prevention of the original "bad habit" that leads to potential buffer overruns might be better.
Peace!
-=- James (Sonork:100.21837)
[Tip for SUV winter driving survival: "Professional Driver on Closed Course" does not mean "your Dumb Ass on a Public Road"!]
[Get Check Favorites 1.5 Now!]
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James R. Twine wrote:
I am of the opinion that Buffer Overruns, and smiliar attacks, are the fault of the developer
Agreed - too many C++ developers use C style strings instead of iostreams, for example.
Christian
No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Right after I got the email that you responded to my post, I get a message from CERT:
CERT Advisory CA-2002-34 Buffer Overflow in Solaris X Window Font Service Talk about timing...! Anyway...
> Agreed - too many C++ developers use C style strings instead
> of iostreams, for example.
True, but even for situations where we are talking about generic "buffers", developers tend to not place the necessary size constraints around them. For example, I have been on projects where other developers have written functions that look like:
void CSomeClass::GetData( BYTE *pBuffer ) {...}
o No way to specify error or success (void return)
o No way to specify buffer length, or return the size of the data placed into the buffer
Functions written like that are just begging for buffer overruns (and other problems).
Peace!
-=- James (Sonork:100.21837)
[Tip for SUV winter driving survival: "Professional Driver on Closed Course" does not mean "your Dumb Ass on a Public Road"!]
[Get Check Favorites 1.5 Now!]
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James R. Twine wrote:
Functions written like that are just begging for buffer overruns (and other problems).
It's a clear case of SBS, I'm afraid..
--
If I had the ability to smooth talk like John Simmons, this post would be less sarcastic and more to the point.
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Please forgive my ignorance, but I do not know what SBS means (in that context).
Peace!
-=- James (Sonork:100.21837)
[Tip for SUV winter driving survival: "Professional Driver on Closed Course" does not mean "your Dumb Ass on a Public Road"!]
[Get Check Favorites 1.5 Now!]
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SBS = Should Be Shot. Shoot the buffer vandalizer I say!
--
If I had the ability to smooth talk like John Simmons, this post would be less sarcastic and more to the point.
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Shoot the buffer vandalizer I say!
You're watching too much Buffy the Vampire Slayer ... you trekkie
Cheers,Joao Vaz
And if your dream is to care for your family, to put food on the table, to provide them with an education and a good home, then maybe suffering through an endless, pointless, boring job will seem to have purpose. And you will realize how even a rock can change the world, simply by remaining obstinately stationary.-Shog9
Remember just because a good thing comes to an end, doesn't mean that the next one can't be better.-Chris Meech
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