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Convicts? Seriously? Isn't that just a whole lot of extra trouble?
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Not for the reasons you would think...
Yes they can't use internet.. o.k. We live in the sticks, and internet is $80 a month(Really).
But they are not programmers so I just make a game editor, AI editor and they build the levels play test and hand me the issues I fix, redistribute and they keep going.. (my turn around time on their issues is usually less then 24 hrs.)
--Bonuses-- they are never drunk, hung over or drugged (they are not allowed to! else Slammer)
--Bonuses-- They are some of the more highly educated people around this area technically (prison education system)also like before I'm in the Boonies.
--Bonuses-- They play lots of games, and as such know what should and shouldn't be in the game for play action etc.
so really aside from the internet thing.. hard workers and more reliable then your average HICK. (their PO doesn't care if they have a home computer as long as there is no way for them to access the internet. and there will be spot checks to make sure that they don't)--- which oddly enough, helps them feel more like a normal member of society (after all they have served their time).
So I would say all in all a good experience so far... but I am not most people and this whole thing doesn't strike me as odd or 'out of pocket' as my ex from Gary, IN would say....
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ely_bob wrote: I think that Microsoft's strategy of not supporting other platforms with their development software (because .NET IS A fairly strong resource)is just adding to their "EVIL" perception...
Are you saying you think MS should create and sell a Visual Studio for the Mac or Linux, or somehow "break-out" their compilers which are integrated with and are symbiotic with all the underlying Windows infrastructure ?
ely_bob wrote: One of the most compedative ways to make your product the best is to allow(encourage) people on other platforms to use it..
I'm wondering what an example of that would be.
ely_bob wrote: this was a strategy that worked very well for apple with PhotoShop... I know a number of people who were "PC's" that became "Macs" specifically because of this software/hardware combination.. made possible because photoshop put out a PC version...
You are kidding, I hope. PhotoShop was created outside Adobe, shopped around to several vendors, before Adobe finally bought it; it was a Mac native app from the beginning[^].
Of course Adobe then developed it for the PC. I was working at Adobe when it was being developed for the PC, and since the Mac version was based on MacApp, they actually developed a simulated MacApp for the PC just to port PhotoShop ! In contrast, Adobe Illustrator was developed "in house" for the Mac, and later proted to Windows.
Of course that was many years ago, and I think it would be entirely correct to say that, thanks to the contributions of programming geniuses like Mark Hamburg (who was given the Gordon Moore award for his achievements), PhotoShop is today truly an Adobe product, although the contributions of the creator, Thomas Knoll, remain remarkable.
ely_bob wrote: the proper course of action is to embrace it (like Mac has(meaning the linux in Apple OSX I think))...
The Mac remains the most closed platform on earth, hardware, and software. And if you look at how they manage iPhone software development you will see exactly how they'd like to manage all development.
<blockquote class="FQ"><div class="FQA">ely_bob wrote:</div>Drug dealers do it.. and look how much money they can make...</blockquote>
The above comment makes me truly wonder what "state" you might be in.
best, Bill
"Many : not conversant with mathematical studies, imagine that because it [the Analytical Engine] is to give results in numerical notation, its processes must consequently be arithmetical, numerical, rather than algebraical and analytical. This is an error. The engine can arrange and combine numerical quantities as if they were letters or any other general symbols; and it fact it might bring out its results in algebraical notation, were provisions made accordingly." Ada, Countess Lovelace, 1844
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One sec.. I need my Medicine... ohh Medicine and a pink pill... o.k. now I'm ready. 
What I was trying to say is that at the core of the OS issue it all boils down to preference(for the majority of users one OS is just as good as another for a personal system) so how do you :
convert mac->PC : Current strategy(not working) make pc feel more like mac, offer similar accessories.
convert PC->mac : Harp on stability, and show off my new accessories(working.. I feel)
convert pc->Unix.. see PC->mac(option 1), mention price, throw in open office.
convert mac->Unix.. what's the point. (BSD Previous post this thread)
as for
BillWoodruff wrote: Are you saying you think MS should create and sell a Visual Studio for the Mac or Linux, or somehow "break-out" their compilers which are integrated with and are symbiotic with all the underlying Windows infrastructure ?
Yes. 
BillWoodruff wrote: I'm wondering what an example of that would be.
ely_bob wrote:
this was a strategy that worked very well for apple with PhotoShop... I know a number of people who were "PC's" that became "Macs" specifically because of this software/hardware combination.. made possible because photoshop put out a PC version...
You are kidding, I hope. PhotoShop was created outside Adobe, shopped around to several vendors, before Adobe finally bought it; it was a Mac native app from the beginning[^].
Like you said.. was MAC app, made a PC version(that was not as good, because of the foreign hardware problems. it just took longer, and If I remember it correctly, the non apple hotkeys felt weird as someone once explained it to me... Not perfect example cus it was an "accident" however if it weren't that would be solid marketing.. right?
so people sampled the photoshop (taste this drug  ) and liked it (nice hugh  ), then heard that it runs better on the new expensive shiny computer  (use this bong here it will taste sooo much better...  ) and voila a mac customer for life.. now we sell the "experience" as a "Lifestyle"... 
Take Blender wonderfull on the linux, problems on the PC(simple ones) if you are running it under pc.. you will hear that there are no(fewer) issues under linux.. might be enough for you to want to switch(also the Blender file management panels are Unix formatted, so the transition isn't quite as drastic).
BillWoodruff wrote: The Mac remains the most closed platform on earth, hardware, and software. And if you look at how they manage iPhone software development you will see exactly how they'd like to manage all development.
Yup I don't like that either. But I refuse to argue the point with you if you have an iPhone, use Mac, or have ever used iTunes. if(you have not){ please read on }else{ GOTO END;}
However it smells of a black hole effect of sorts.. (Heroine?)
try this.. nice hugh.. look at this, shiney.. oh hey this works with that.. you should have both.. now plug your coffee machine into the port there and you can make coffee from you phone.. Wonderful... now to feed yourself you.....
But as anyone who has watched trainspotting or played shadowrun would know.. Drug dealers not only sell the drug, but(at least reputable ones) will also sell you the accessories so you can use their drug... they won't tell you how to make it yourself, or who their supplier is, why should they that would cut them out of the profit.
And look at how well the strategy is working out for them.
Truth be told I don't really care for any of the OS's out there.. they all have problems, mainly based in corporate greed.. the best option is linux.. because of places like CodeProject that bring development to the masses, but until programmers can settle down on some coding/exicution standard for all OS's, you will have these issues. There is no reason other then avarice for someone to make lets say a new C compiler that makes .Sht files and uses that as the executable binaries. Unless they are making a new device and want that devises programming to be proprietary, and we (I mean all those other people)as the devise using addicts that we/they are will buy it and accept it without wondering if we can code for it..
END:
Should this be a rant?
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: C# Builder
I don't think they have their own compiler.
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It has its own compiler, but the product is dropped.
Forget it!
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I have to agree with what I think is the gist of Marc's comment here : the choice of IDE and integrated compiler is very limited on Windows, and nothing equals MS .NET ... yet.
I couldn't respond to this survey because I felt none of the choices reflected my own reality. If it were the case that you could use Visual Studio for your IDE, and there was a wide range of compilers for C# ranging from open-source to pay-for-from-third-parties, that would be another reality.
That doesn't mean I don't appreciate what Mono is trying to do, and SharpDevelop and other tools.
best, Bill
"Many : not conversant with mathematical studies, imagine that because it [the Analytical Engine] is to give results in numerical notation, its processes must consequently be arithmetical, numerical, rather than algebraical and analytical. This is an error. The engine can arrange and combine numerical quantities as if they were letters or any other general symbols; and it fact it might bring out its results in algebraical notation, were provisions made accordingly." Ada, Countess Lovelace, 1844
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1) Standards : missing option
2) Maybe in tools integration, but debugging and testing are woole new chapters in dev cicle and MUST be integrated
3) same as above
maybe also setup and deplyoment...
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I agree with the "Standards" option you suggest. I didn't vote as this option was missing.
Steve
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Yep, the last time I was in position to choose my compiler was when I ran my own business 10 years ago. Now, it is my choice only for the side projects.
Fortunatelly, recent versions of all compilers I have worked with (MS and GNU) are pretty good. I wouldn't enjoy working with older versions though (MS VC 6.0 and gcc ver < 3.0).
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Now, it is the choice of the manager. If he wants to have a C# Compiler to run a ASP script, we ought to make that too.
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar
Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep!
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Other:
* A vendor that will be around for a while
* Familiarity
* A large community of users
My company went VB.Net + Visual Studio for these reasons.
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....the glaringly obvious missing choice. 
I'd also suggest that a lot of devs don't choose the compiler itself, but use whatever came with their IDE of preference (no matter how crufty and 'orrible it is. Yes, I'm loooking at you, VC6...).
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I hope you brought your armor with you today, Anna. VC6 seems to be the holy relic for local worshipers.
Software Zen: delete this;
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I usually find the zealots retreat when confronted with the Holy Hand Grenade of For-Loop Compliance.
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Awesome  !
Software Zen: delete this;
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I'm glad you like it. If you hang around hotel bars with members of the C++ Standards Committee for long enough you do eventually gain access to such awesome weaponry...
modified on Monday, October 12, 2009 7:30 AM
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Beware of the beast of Caerbannog (read: templates)
Nuclear launch detected
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:grin:
IF you knew them you'd know that the real beast is template metaprogramming*. Mere "ordinary" templates such as those you find in ATL and WTL are small cuddly pussycats by comparison.
* Though Jason McGuiness' Parallel Pixie Dust threading library comes close because of its sheer academic brilliance (Jason is a maths guru, and it shows). Damn impressive though.
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Hmm, I thought it was the VC6 IDE that people liked, the compiler was terrible.
But I differ on the IDE part, I like the way Intellisense automatically comes up with VS 2005 and above, code snippets, collapsible regions, etc.
Cheers,
Vikram. (Cracked not one CCC, but two!)
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Well, I wasn't exactly specific in my wisecrack; I was referring to the IDE.
I agree that Microsoft has made great strides with the compiler since VC6; compiler standards compliance has improved greatly, although the changes since VS2003 have been rather incremental.
The post-VC6 IDE for C++ programmers sucks. I firmly believe that Microsoft deliberately fails to update the IDE for C++ programmers in order to pressure more of them into the .NET environment. Intellisense consistently fails to provide even basic functionality. Even the text editor exhibits bugs when editing simple source code in the C++ arena that you don't see when editing managed code.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Agreed. I was a little shocked to see it wasn't in the list.
Steve
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Yes, I'm loooking at you, VC6
Hey, if you remember to put T*=0 at the end of the argument list, half of the templates actually work!
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server
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I try not to think about VC6 hacks. 
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