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Sure not everything is doable on web but most things are, and I can tell you that:
-> the biggest advantage for developers is the ability to have all the clients with the latest software version without any effort
-> the biggest advantage for customers is to have their data centralized.
Sure the web client is poor, sure it may be slower, but again... who cares?!
Certainly not the customers!
You give them a fully working solution and they don't care if it's web, windows, Linux, SQL Server, SQLite or whatever technology you use...
Make it useful, practical and time saving that they want it :p
Cheers,
Alex
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AlexCode wrote: Sure not everything is doable on web but most things are, and I can tell you that:
I'm fully aware of the pros and cons, and I do consider myself an expert in this field I can tell you that. That being said, I was counter-acting your blanket statement which was just plain wrong. This does not mean I don't understand the benefits of the web.
AlexCode wrote: -> the biggest advantage for developers is the ability to have all the clients with the latest software version without any effort
-> the biggest advantage for customers is to have their data centralized
This both true and untrue. Updates/minor updates and centralized data can happen with a client app. The *biggest* advantage of the web is a thin client architecture so you can have major updates be transparent and skip an install. Everything else you can do with client apps, including go multi-platform.
AlexCode wrote: Sure the web client is poor, sure it may be slower, but again... who cares?!
Certainly not the customers!
I'd wager you don't much experience in customer relations if you think they don't care about the experience. In fact, that's all they care about because they don't see the code behind it. Presentation is everything. And yes, the web can do a lot for a lot of cases and is very nice. But, client apps can do a lot as well.
AlexCode wrote: You give them a fully working solution and they don't care if it's web, windows, Linux, SQL Server, SQLite or whatever technology you use...
They'll never care regardless of client or web. They're not techs with preferences. They just run the install and click buttons. They're users after all. And you can still do multi-platform on the client.
AlexCode wrote: Make it useful, practical and time saving that they want it :p
Oh yeah because it's obvious a client app can't be useful or practical. Thanks for clearing that up. 
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Can't run a manufacturing system on the web, and why the hell would you.
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Sure not everything is doable on web but most things are, and I can tell you that:
-> the biggest advantage for developers is the ability to have all the clients with the latest software version without any effort
-> the biggest advantage for customers is to have their data centralized.
Sure the web client is poor, sure it may be slower, but again... who cares?!
Certainly not the customers!
You give them a fully working solution and they don't care if it's web, windows, Linux, SQL Server, SQLite or whatever technology you use...
Make it useful, practical and time saving that they want it :p
As for manufacturing software you're not talking about CNC machines and such are you? 
Sure it makes no sense, but that is like a driver... a specific software for a specific hardware
Cheers,
Alex
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Dude it's the Web! It can do anything! The masses want in! You could open a Twitter feed to your manufacturing system and let people Twat about improvements, or how slow your machines run! You could open real time RSS feeds for notifications about when you're out of product! You could have inventory lists leak out via IM notifications so that Slashdot and Digg could pick these up, make up product rumors, and cause the blogosphere to wet it's pants! Woot! All Hail Web 2 Point Blow!
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Thank f*** for the web, what ever will we do with out it. Now back on to some non-script kiddie work.
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Because the "web" is not an application programming environment. It was never built for this. It is *still* not built for this, we've just shoehorned enough duct tape, bubble gum, and spit to sort of make a mess of stuff work together, but the whole thing is as fragile as a spider web. Until a new HTTP like protocol is developed with application programming in mind, we're going to have the same mess of crap that we have today. Give me client side programming *any* day of the week over web "programming".
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Jim Crafton wrote: Web programming Scripting
Corrected for ya 
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Earned a lot of "friends" with my comment this week
Anyways, you're absolutely right but I see this as a path we must walk through.
I have no doubt you can enumerate a bunch of crappy languages on the past you know and some you actually had to program in until we got where we are on client side now.
I've always been a full time client side developer until a few years ago, and at the switch it was very hard for me to be productive on web... so many new languages to learn just to do a small sample project... (HTML, XML, XSL, JavaScript,... you name it...)
Now I work on a financial application, spread all over the world and if it was a windows app I can tell you that the company just didn't existed. One main reason is because our customers are mostly banks and their computers are totally locked. Even having signed contracts and being them the ones to want to use our application, to have a permission to add another app to their system takes months, not to mention that the windows app had to connect to a remote database that had to be on our servers...
So, what I'm saying, and probably expressed myself wrong at the first place, is that even with crappy tools and the increase of development time, web development is getting more supporters everyday, customers are getting more educated about what is the web, and at the end of the day I find it easier to reach customers.
Cheers mate,
Alex
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I'm not too interested in using my phone for more than just calls and text messages. I don't really understand the mobile obsession.
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Alan Greenleaf wrote: I don't really understand the mobile obsession.
Its usefulness will depend on how much you get out of the office. 
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When I'm out of the office I don't want to bring it with me.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: When I'm out of the office I don't want to bring it with me.
Then why buy one?
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I don't intend to; no one should.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: I don't intend to; no one should.
Yeah because having a cell phone to use and/or mobile web access if your car breaks down in the middle of nowhere would be horrible. Much better to hitchhike.
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Yes, you meet the most interesting people.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: Yes, you meet the most interesting people.
Like axe murderers?
I've had a hitchhiking experience in my day. The lady was relatively nice. But, my father had one where he got kicked out and drove back to his original position because he wasn't gay and the guy picked him up for that. Let's not forget to mention the pervs that would like to pick up your wife or daughter when stranded. And the added bonus of not having to wait for a person to cruise by - just in case it's not on the interstate during busy hours your vehicle decides to crap out.
Gee I don't know, a cell phone doesn't look so horrible compared to that. And you meet the most interesting people that way by being able to actually talk to them when not on the clock.
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Um, better to invest in dependable transportation, no?
Gary
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ghle wrote: Um, better to invest in dependable transportation, no?
Um, I suppose getting a dependable nail in the dependable tire is impossible. Thanks for the free vote btw. But that's besides the point for the scenario at hand really. The point is what if you do break down. It's better than hitchhiking.
Only real reasons to not have one is if you're anti-social, just wanna avoid what the mob does, or can't afford it.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Um, I suppose getting a dependable nail in the dependable tire is impossible.
My autos come with spare tires. You should invest in one. Cheaper than iPhone, no monthly fees.
Jeremy Falcon wrote: Only real reasons to not have one is if you're anti-social, just wanna avoid what the mob does, or can't afford it.
Anti-social because I don't have a mobile phone? 
You forgot a Forth real reason - don't need one.
Have 2 dozen Win CE/Moble devices sitting in my office. None have phone features.
Gary
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ghle wrote: My autos come with spare tires. You should invest in one. Cheaper than iPhone, no monthly fees.
It's still not impossible for an engine problem even on a car that's taken care of.
ghle wrote: Have 2 dozen Win CE/Moble devices sitting in my office. None have phone features.
Which is odd because those have less usefulness than a phone. It's the same thing but you can also call.
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I didn't take you as the one voting type. It wasn't you right? Or was it? Cell phones are a sensitive spot is it? lol
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I do cast a lot of 1 votes (mostly on non-articles), but haven't on this thread... yet. 
Jeremy Falcon wrote: Cell phones are a sensitive spot is it?
I just think a phone should be a phone, not a web browser or personal assistant.
I was at the Desert Code Camp on Saturday and one of the sessions I attended was iPhone development. The presenter wrote a simple Twitter client. I'm of the opinion that anyone who has so little life as to want Twitter on his iPhone needs an intervention. 
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: I just think a phone should be a phone, not a web browser or personal assistant.
You're just getting old.
PIEBALDconsult wrote: I'm of the opinion that anyone who has so little life as to want Twitter on his iPhone needs an intervention.
Actually we at least agree on that. I'm still amazed twitter is popular; I think it's retarded to message small blurbs about your life over and over. I mean, that's why we have phones to *talk* to people. It's like we're going back in time.
And no, that vote wasn't from me.
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