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Hans Dietrich wrote: Based on working on different contracts at dozens of companies over the last ten years, I disagree.
Well, so much for my attempt at diplomacy! Like you, I have been contracting for quite some time - in my case, 20 years this year. Most of my work is outside of Canada - and especially outside of my home province of Quebec (difference rate expectations). While working in the US, I found it seemed more likely that I would meet non-steroetypical developers than at home in Canada. Typically, thse non-sterotypical developers would be musicians, and since I briefly worked as a professional musician myself there may be bias that creeps in. I make no comment on whether professional musicians are seen as management material or not.
But let's say that you are right amd the developer's reputation as socially awkward and professionally myopic is well-deserved. You suggest that the companies themselves could be doing more to address this, but aren't.
Is this because developers are too valuable where they are? If so, we can't expect the company's to change, can we? Given that assumption, would you advise developers with ambitions to rise to higher pay levels and unrestricted career paths to NOT aspire to becoming "senior developers"?
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CrashAlpha wrote: Is this because developers are too valuable where they are? If so, we can't expect the company's to change, can we?
Turn the question around. How many people in top management do you think have had a bad experience in dealing with developers? How many times have they discovered that the developer answered the question they asked, but because they didn't word it exactly right, they didn't get a complete answer? How many times has a key developer quit, or threatened to quit unless he got more money?
How prevalent is this? I don't know. But why would any company take a functioning developer and give him responsibilities and duties he is neither qualified for or wants?
I am assuming in all this that you are not just talking about a 'technical team leader' kind of manager, which developers can and must do.
My friend has a joke he tells about developers: How can you tell when a developer is extrovert? - because he stares at your shoes while he's talking to you.
Of course, there are exceptions; exceptional companies, who know how to manage and train developers, and provide safety nets for new managers; and exceptional developers, who want to stretch their boundaries.
Please excuse my bluntness. I assumed you want straight answers.
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Hans Dietrich wrote: How many times has a key developer quit, or threatened to quit unless he got more money?
It's easy to see top management becoming frustrated with developers. But I think you know that developers aren't the only ones who threaten to quit over salary demands once they think they're indispensible.
Hans Dietrich wrote: But why would any company take a functioning developer and give him responsibilities and duties he is neither qualified for or wants?
Let's break up your observation into "is not qualified for" and "nor wants".
"not qualified" - I have seen IT positions up to CIO (within a $200M+ company!) filled by people with no IT experience or significant education. Can this not be seen as a sign that people can be appointed to positions that they are NOT strictly qualified for? Does this mean that the rules for managing development projects are somehow different?
"nor wants" - like many things in life, it is always dangerous to assume that what makes you happy now, will make you happy for the rest of your career. Do developers KNOW that their career choice may freeze them in that slot until they retire? (Of the four developers that I have met who are 55 or older, all four expressed frustration over where their craeer took them).
Hans Dietrich wrote: Please excuse my bluntness. I assumed you want straight answers.
It's extremely welcome. I think that we are on the ssame wavelength - which may mean that it is time for me to think of ways to get feedback from others on what they have seen and how they feel about their career path and how they feel they are seen by their own upper management. Any ideas?
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CrashAlpha wrote: the developer's reputation as socially awkward and professionally myopic is well-deserved
Most of them have an interest in learning what buttons to push on a machine. Ask a developer if he wants to learn about human nature or if he wants to learn C# 4.0 - what answer are you most likely to get?
CrashAlpha wrote: Is this because developers are too valuable where they are?
Well, you will loose a good programmer and gain a manager. Which of these two commodities would be easier to find? Will it be easy to replace that programmer that has intimate knowledge of the inhouse code?
CrashAlpha wrote: If so, we can't expect the company's to change, can we?
Lots of companies provide a way for the employee to enhance his/hers curriculum, offering courses and additional education. Is it the company that needs to promote more management-related courses to the developers, or is it the developers' responsibility to find the education that would suit him/her most?
I think that coders (as a generalization) rather work with machines than humans. Managing machines is logical, whilst managing humans is more emotional based. Change is something that always meets resistance, and once you're comfortable with managing machines, the step toward something unknown to handle can be quite large.
CrashAlpha wrote: Given that assumption, would you advise developers with ambitions to rise to higher pay levels and unrestricted career paths to NOT aspire to becoming "senior developers"?
I'd say that we are glorified mechanics, and that running a company doesn't require any knowledge of computers whatsoever. A good mechanic might be good at leading a company, just as a good baker might, but it's not seen as their core competence.
Many a good baker won't dream of an 'unrestricted career path', but most of them don't expect one either - unrestricted growth with a single competence is a bit too much to ask for. You won't lead a multi-million dollar company if your knowledge is limited to compilers or mixing flour and eggs.
The reason I'm picking a baker as an example is merely because I admire bakers; get up early, getting their hands dirty, be friendly to annoying customers.. Everything that the stereotypical programmer isn't 
I'm getting more and more curious about your article on the subject 
I is hungry for knowledge, in any form
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: Ask a developer if he wants to learn about human nature or if he wants to learn C# 4.0 - what answer are you most likely to get?
I agree with you - even though I am not the same type at all. I study these things out of neccessity, not interest. Should we assume all developers are like that?
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Managing machines is logical, whilst managing humans is more emotional based.
I have seen good managers and have admire their simple style - their ability to inspire peopel to perform. Managing machines only LOOKS hard.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: I'd say that we are glorified mechanics
I've compared us to electricians. In the begniing of the electrical age, where Thomas Edison was the Bill Gates of his day, I'll bet many pioneer electricians saw a bright, unrestricted professional and business future ahead of them. Today, they are tradesman, like plumbers and carpenters (with all due respect to all).
Eddy Vluggen wrote: I'm getting more and more curious about your article on the subject
I do think that this subject should be addressed for the sake of people entering into the field, as well as those who are finding themselves stuck in a dead-end and wondering where else there is to go. If I don't write it, then who will? 
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CrashAlpha wrote: Should we assume all developers are like that?
I don't think that it's limited to developers. Most people will focus on the things that they are good at.
The developers are probably one of the few sorts that can avoid lots of human interaction and get away with it.
CrashAlpha wrote: Managing machines only LOOKS hard.
True, and desktops have the advantage that they can be restored to a previous state! 
CrashAlpha wrote: Can this not be seen as a sign that people can be appointed to positions that they are NOT strictly qualified for?
Sounds like "politics" - a game that people played even before Caesar was murdered.
CrashAlpha wrote: I do think that this subject should be addressed for the sake of people entering into the field
That's where I expected it, but I can't remember any discussion on the subject 
I are troll 
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Hi All,
While creating a new article i'm getting the message as in subject.
I tried creating a new article a couple of times still the error exits.
I have 2 articles posted before. I didn't find any problems during that.
Funny thing is there is no other message that might help understanding what actually the problem is.
Is there any limitation on articles or memory that a user can use on CodeProject.com?
Please help.
Thanx,
s.a.w.
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I'm toying with writing a new article (not about Silverlight), and I'd like to include a little interactive example of what I'm talking about, to help the reader visualize what's going on. An embedded Silverlight control would get the job done well. Am I allowed to include a Silverlight control with my article?
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I think the answer is yes, but I don't have the details. If you don't get an answer here, try posting on the Suggestions forum.
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Cool. I posted on the Suggestions forum, and Chris Maunder replied. Short answer: it's cool to use Silverlight. The full thread is here[^].
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http://www.codeproject.com/KB/macros/GoToFileAddInVisualStudio.aspx
Regards and nice day,
Rafey, Husain.
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not at all.
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
- before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google
- the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get
- use the code block button (PRE tags) to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets
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Hi,
I submitted an article last week. The same day i got a mail from webmaster@codeproject.com saying my article has been posted in the Miscellaneous section with a link. But i am not able to view the article in that link. The link says the article has been deleted. How can i retrieve my article.Do i need to post it again?
Thanks,
renuka
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Renukakrishnan wrote: Do i need to post it again?
No, not in the original form. It having been deleted means it was either abusive or substandard.
Weren't there any replies to it explaining some?
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
- before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google
- the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get
- use the code block button (PRE tags) to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets
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In the mail it was written the article has been posted and has asked me to review it. Doesnt that mean they have accepted the article.
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Renukakrishnan wrote: has asked me to review it.
I don't understand, why would you need to review your own article, unless there was some negative feedback first?
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
- before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google
- the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get
- use the code block button (PRE tags) to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets
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If you still don't have an answer, please post in the Suggestions forum, which the site admins monitor.
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Has anybody written a tool to convert from docbook to codeproject article compliant html? I am thinking of submitting an article but shudder at the thought of doing copy paste as suggested in the article submission guidelines! Maybe we need an article to produce the xsl!!
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Sounds like it would be a useful tool.
Why not write it yourself and submit it as an article?
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I was wondering if it is allowed to ask for donations on articles I have written. I read the terms of service and didn't see any guidelines about that. In the light of the current worldwide financial crisis, I think some of us independent consultants might be able to use the occasional donation. Thanks for a wonderful site.
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I'm not sure how often the site admins look at this forum. You might get better response if you moved this to the Suggestions forum.
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Sorry for disturbing, but is the first time for me to post, and I want to write an article about a code , but I used codes from different places and merged them to reach what I wanted, so I have to refer to all the links in the article, right?,thanks in advance.
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yoyo_houda wrote: I have to refer to all the links
Whether you refer to all the links is up to you. There are two reasons for giving links:- To allow readers to verify that you have a legal right to use the code
- To allow readers to learn more about the included code in its original form
What it comes down to is a matter of good judgment. If there's any question about whether you had the right to use the code in your article, then you should try to clear that up before you submit the article.
Many of the articles here have reference sections at the end. This is primarily a learning site and code-sharing site, so the more information you can supply, the more your article will be appreciated.
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Hi
I am Sreedhar Ambati and I am a dotnet developer.
I want to write articles on Microsoft Dynamics suite like MS CRM, Great Plains.
But there is no section or category where I can post my article.
Can you please include that?
Thanks
Sreedhar Ambati
http://ambatisreedhar.spaces.live.com
sreedhar ambati
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I don't want to be the one who starts messing around here with the content so, is there some kind of restriction related to the language?? or should I write an English version of each post? (which is not a bad idea, but I´m afraid I could not update my sites very often... 
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