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snorkie wrote: It seems like everything these days is going to a subscription model. I don't want my software going there. I like to pay for things up front and one time.
I actually agree with this, but I think the concept will eventually be integrated into more OSes like Linux/Unix, etc. I mean, if you take Amazon's EC2 it's not the end all be all, it's just one manifestation of the concept of scalable parallel computing. However, if you look at how Windows is doing it, it'll be it's own OS rather than have an OS sit on top of it.
Eventually, people will follow suite once it catches on enough to implement these concepts into XYZ. I mean if MS does, Apple will have to for their servers just to stay competitive for instance. And if it's part of the OS, then perhaps it won't be subscription based.
Keep in mind, think of Amazon's EC2 as a web host with infinite scalability in performance. You don't have to charge a subscription fee for YOUR software, but to use their service you have to pay (price per computing unit and bandwidth). If I had a typical client/server app today, and I didn't run the server myself I'd be expected to pay a fee for someone else to do it no matter what, even for OSS. Same concept.
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A central computer with users at dumb terminals has been tried, it worked great but has been replaced anyway.
Or perhaps the following prediction is coming true?
"We anticipate a global world-maket with place for perhaps five computers."
Tom Watson, IBM 1949
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: A central computer with users at dumb terminals has been tried, it worked great but has been replaced anyway.
It's not necessarily like that. Although you can run the whole app in the cloud, you don't have to, and I suspect that in most cases there will still be a client application running on the user's system. There certainly will be in our case.
And even if the whole app does run remotely, the interface is still the user's browser, which means that you have all of the scripting capabilities that weren't available in dumb terminals. I really don't think it's the same thing.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: A central computer with users at dumb terminals has been tried, it worked great but has been replaced anyway.
Um, how is this different than any other web page (in theory)? I mean, CP is a central computer(s) with a dumb terminal (your browser). A cloud is just an extension of that concept.
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Yeah, that whole web thing is so last decade...
(You know you are on a website, right? dumb browser, big server...)
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Paul Watson wrote: Yeah, that whole web thing is so last decade...
Crap, you said it better than I. Next time I tell ya; next time. 
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Woops, sorry Jeremy, I didn't read yours (flying visit!) You said it first. Mine was more sarcastic, the recourse of dimwits.
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Paul Watson wrote: Woops, sorry Jeremy
No need for all that. You in fact helped reinforce my point - which is good.
Paul Watson wrote: I didn't read yours
Surely you jest? You mean you failed to be instantaneously subdued by the mere lure of my name being next to a post that you couldn't find yourself capable of doing anything but mentally desiring the absolute luxury and privilege of reading my post? 
Paul Watson wrote: Mine was more sarcastic, the recourse of dimwits.
It was funny IMO.
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You're both reinforcing mine.
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Paul Watson wrote: What has replaced it?
Thin client, the web, etc. But, the concept never went away, it just evolved. So, the idea never got really replaced to begin with.
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So we aren't reinforcing his post...?
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Paul Watson wrote: So we aren't reinforcing his post...?
Not the way I read it. 
I took it to mean the dumb terminal concept is gone, but it's clearly not. It just evolved and we call it something else.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: You're both reinforcing mine.
You did actually read our posts correct?
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I'm somewhat surprised at how few people voted positively on this one...I expected everyone to be jumping on it.
Does "edge caching" count as "the cloud"? I don't even know where the lines are anymore, it's all just a bunch of buzzwords. But I imagine if S3 can be considered part of the cloud, so can edge caching. I'm currently debating between a cloud storage system (i.e. S3) and edge caching for an application that is in development. Either will save bucketloads of money for my client and make me a ton more (less overhead). The nature of the app is such that one week there could be zero users, and the next week there could be 100,000 users downloading multimedia content at once, so it is perfectly suited for a "pay as you go" cloud environment. 100,000 users isn't huge, so a couple servers can handle the processing/database load, but try streaming video to that many users at once without racking up an insane bill for the required dedicated 8 gigabits of bandwidth 
My monthly bill if three such "waves" of users come in a cloud environment: about $3500
My monthly bill if I needed 8 gigabit connections: hahaha...riiight...I'll leave that one for your imagination.
modified on Monday, November 3, 2008 7:10 AM
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"Cloud" sounds a good idea but users may not see its benefit until it becomes a proven reliable techinology/service. Past experience shows that many tech/services disappeared before they even really started.
TOMZ_KV
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It is and will always be, useless.
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With all due respect...you, sir, are ignorant if you think all cloud services are useless. Implemented properly, you get much higher reliability than any self-made or managed hosting solutions, you can scale at a moments notice, and your costs can be substantially reduced.
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Yes maybe so.. it works for a few Businesses.. but hey .. ...tell me what happens when it goes 'tits up' and its out of your hands in respect of being able to sort out the recovery....??????
How much will it then cost you .....?????????????????????
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Well, our software has the benefit of being able to target many different "cloud"-like environments. It is integrated into Voxel's CDN as well as Amazon S3, and we will be looking at adding a couple others very soon. Switching between providers is as simple as changing a setting.
Will some go belly up? Probably. The services we target all have similar pricing models and prices, so our customers will never see the difference. If you are telling me cloud-like services will one day disappear entirely and I won't be able to find a suitable replacement to plug into, I'm going to call you crazy. CDN's and edge caching services have been around for a long time and are here to stay.
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You miss my point .... What I am saying is that for Hosting Games and Streaming activities may be ok in a Cloud enviorenment.. But for the sort of Services that I tend to mainly work for: Governmental:Local Authority: Police Authorities:Health services:Financial Services and Retail Services...
Are NOT going to allow their bespoke applications to sit on a Cloud Structure.
As I have previously said... it may be ok for Gaming/Streaming activities as it does have cost Benefits...but for those services that have a very strict Auditing Control on security it will not be an option. I would guess that on a percentage basis that means around 70-80% of the largest Businesses that MS are trying to target wil NOT take on a Cloud Structure. The take up will only happen mainly for those that have Gaming/Streaming activities as their main agenda.
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Yes, I definately missed your point...I don't know how I could possibly figure out that this is what you were trying to get across in your last post. All I saw was something about "what will you do if it goes tits up," which to me means "what will you do if the service goes down," which is what I attempted to answer.
As stated in a newer post of mine - you don't have to host every part of an application in the cloud. Even just hosting the images offloads a huge about of bandwidth and disk activity from your server. I host a municipal police service application as well as a couple other government organization applications, and any static resources (i.e. images, script files, etc) are served from an edge caching service. These are hardly "ultra top secret" files. The database with all their information is stored on my own secured servers.
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Apologies...... I used a reply that was used also for another posting further on. I felt it was the same answer so used that one. Perhaps I should have re-edited it before posting the reply to your submission.
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Hopefully this whole cloud concept is just a phase. Fair play to some cloud services like Google Docs etc, but moving the whole OS onto the cloud just seems ridiculous to me, call me old fashioned but it is still possible to use a PC without an internet connection, isnt it?
Jonathan Harker
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jharker1987 wrote: call me old fashioned but it is still possible to use a PC without an internet connection, isnt it?
Only if you are happy to activate windows via phone.
Simon
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