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Didn't they used to be a network software company back in the 80s before TCP/IP became the de facto standard? Are they even still around?
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Yes, but they're UNIX zombies. Shield yourselves.
I'd been called 'ugly', 'pug ugly', 'fugly', 'pug fugly' but never 'ugly ugly'. - Moe Szyslak
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MS tools are built around OS lock-in. MS stopped supporting c++ with VS.NET.
Don't think OS lock-in is good for us SW developers. It's good for MS, but it causes our companies to loose potential new avenues of revenue.
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you should do more research would you, microsoft has never stopped supporting c++ in visual studio. my visual studio 2008 has bot managed and unmanaged c++. heck, they even released a c++ feature pack a couple of months ago. For somethings a managed language just won't cut it. And they are well aware of that.
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I'm using all versions of Visual Studio 1.0 - VS 2005. I notice all the features available for c# are missing for c++. I mean stuff like creating accessor functions and override functions automatically.
Really Visual c++ has few new improvements since 4.0. That's when there was still competition from Borland, but once Borland left the scene they stopped making any real improvements (just marketing features).
For instance VS.NET doesn't have half the features present in Eclipse and that's a java app.
The only thing that makes VS.NET better than eclipse is the debugger.
Maybe you should be doing the reseach.
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My research is right here, http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb384632.aspx[^] I just don't relate "code completion" as a real feature. you miss it, write snippits to do it. AND your original comment was that microsoft was going for an OS lockin or something with .net. FROM [^] i can conclude that the c++ team is still very much active.
And as for the emphasis on .net it's because managed languages are all the rage these days. They're pushing against java, simple as that. (and also half the features in eclipse are also annoying).
so maybe you should get that stick out of your butt.
modified on Monday, May 12, 2008 7:42 AM
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Blah, whatever.
Waste of time talking to an MS shill
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> the c++ team is still very much active.
They may be, but even if that's the case, the team must lack sufficient ressources to be able to follow the evolution of the language.
Question: do you think by 2008 they would implement the C99 standard?
> so maybe you should get that stick out of your butt.
does that appeal for comments?
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Johan Boule wrote: do you think by 2008 they would implement the C99 standard
They (VC++ team) never commited to implementing C99, and actually announced they have no plans to support it.
Having said that, not even GNU gcc supports all of C99.
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: Having said that, not even GNU gcc supports all of C99.
Which is a shame, really. Dont you think?
"thats a pretty strong & powerful API they've got there...in fact, so strong, that it wont allow itself to be a tool...it wont allow anyone to use it"
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Anton Afanasyev wrote: Which is a shame, really. Dont you think?
Well, I am not really a C guy, so I don't miss it. As far as I know, Comeau[^] has pretty good support for C99.
As for GNU, their state of C99 support is available here[^].
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Johan Boule wrote: do you think by 2008 they would implement the C99 standard?
My impression is that they're tracking C++ rather than C aren't they?
Kevin
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> FROM [^] i can conclude that the c++ team is still very much active.
Pretty active spreading bad ideas like following one (link found on that blog page):
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/12a04hfd(VS.80).aspx
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PhyxZ3R0 wrote: so maybe you should get that stick out of your butt.
I voted you a one because you're an idiot.
PhyxZ3R0 wrote: i can conclude that the c++ team is still very much active.
And they should be, someone's gotta make sure MS can keep on writing Windows and the .NET run times, etc. But, this still has zippo to do with the crap C/C++ support MS has been dishing out to us devs though.
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PhyxZ3R0 wrote: microsoft has never stopped supporting c++ in visual studio
Nor has it many of the goodies it gave to .NET. I'm sure that was an accident though. 
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ed welch wrote: MS stopped supporting c++ with VS.NET
I wish they stopped shipping the c++ compiler with Visual Studio, and developped a separate IDE for system programmers. VS became too big, fat and slow.
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: VS became too big, fat and slow.
Agreed.
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I wish I could vote this a 500, but alas. Agreed 10000%. What we _really_ need is the kind of IDE that VS6.0 had - not an all-in-one thing, but separate IDE's. I really dont _care_ that I can now compile a project solution written in a million languages, one project for each. First, no reason to do that..like, ever. Second, what's the problem with compiling them in separate IDEs and linking the libraries?
Anyway, 5'd this.
"thats a pretty strong & powerful API they've got there...in fact, so strong, that it wont allow itself to be a tool...it wont allow anyone to use it"
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Anton Afanasyev wrote: what's the problem with compiling them in separate IDEs and linking the libraries?
In fact this is the point, Microsoft is going toward making all programmers as users, no one has to understand what is happening under the hood, so any new student or programmer will have the vs express just clicking the wizards writing a line of code and blah you got an application .
This is bad, ask any programmer knowing only C# or VB (I don't mean the folks who upgraded from C++ of course) about linking, loader, or any other low-level concepts, he will know nothing in fact.
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It seems as i'm the first one that votes for IBM.As a developer IBM do good job by leading Eclipse project.
You see the news , Eclipse community did something that Microsoft or Google can not do, released a whole Europe package in time.
Yeaa , this is not only work of guys in IBM , but when you see the chair man list , you'll IBM is dominant, simply it's the initiator of ECLIPSE ecosystem.
IBM is also known with it's other software's that is not "maybe" visible to end user but used in many infrastructure.
[AGP]
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Their continuing development of the Lotus Notes abortion completely eliminates any credit they deserve for anything else.
Some sins may not be forgiven.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Gary Wheeler wrote: Their continuing development of the Lotus Notes abortion completely eliminates any credit they deserve for anything else.
And don't forget Rational - that's almost worse than Lotus.
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Which company did most damage to devs around the world in areas of :
brain, bloat, instability, security, bad design, tech that sheep adore, dumb protocols, and more..
No doubt the one that will get the most votes.
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I second you on that. These surveys make no sense.
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User of Users Group wrote: Which company did most damage to devs around the world in areas of :
brain, bloat, instability, security, bad design, tech that sheep adore, dumb protocols, and more..
No doubt the one that will get the most votes.
No doubt indeed - Sun.
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